What do the Army do?

DublinTexas said:
Provide security for cash vans in transit
So the protection of a private transaction is done by the Defence Forces? I can understand that it’s getting more dangerous to transport money between banks, but do we really need the Army doing that? In other countries it’s down to the company providing the service or the police. I know we have this notion that our police force should not be armed but wake up and smell the coffee it’s 2009!

Provide bomb disposal service
I’m sure the Shin Bet would rather deal with bombs at the Israeli embassy. And as for other bomb disposal, that is clearly a Public Safety issue and needs to be done, especially given that there were more than 100 separate bomb attacks involving crime gangs and dissident paramilitaries in the Dublin region last year. The question however is if trained law enforcement officer would not be better for this, as they not only could dispose but also ensure forensic evidence is secured at the same time.

Provide security at government building
And again that is a law enforcement job or the job of a professional security service but not youngsters with a gun who might cause more harm than good if there is ever a professional attempt to go after our governments buildings.

Provide security at their own barracks (this is 24 hour continuous shift)
What we don’t have does not need protection.

Provide air transport for various ministers
“who are too lazy to drive” is I think the right description. While there are needs to provide ministers with air transport I think this needs scaling down and correct sourcing.

Patrol to prevent illegal fishing (navy but they are all the same)
And again a law enforcement job. However given the state of our fishing industry and the fact that most rules for fishing are EU rules the question arise if this really is the job of the Navy.

Patrol to prevent drug smuggling
And again a law enforcement job. I thought we had a customs service (there was even a TV show about our hero customs services staff protecting us from the illegal cigarettes and alcohol from abroad).

Train for the overseas peacekeeping missions
As long as the world cherry picks their so called peace keeping missions (ignore Darfur, ignore Sri Lanka) I sincerely question if someone actually should participate in these.

So in summary the majority of day to day work is law enforcement and not traditional defence work, it looks to me the government uses the defence forces (because they know that the English are not going to invade us again) as a substitution for a modernization of our Law Enforcement apparatus.

We need to modernize our law enforcement service and bring it into the 21st century, while I have the outmost respect of historical reason to form the Garda Síochána as it currently exists, it is clearly not in a position to deal with the current thread from armed gangs and violent crimes. Sure there has been some limited success recently but overall it’s not able to do what it’s supposed to do.

Let’s face it, there is very little chance that any conventional war will happen in Ireland (seriously who is going to invade us) so we should discuss what the defence forces are doing not for the sake of cutting jobs or saving money alone but to ensure that law enforcement is strengthened.

I’m all for security but honestly I rather have an M16 in my backyard to protect me myself than to hope that some teenager of the army (who does not work on nights or weekends) will protect me.
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All valid points, but 10,000 army personal (that 10,000 includes navy and air corps mind you) is a lot cheaper to run than have 10,000 extra gardai, a private in the army earns €452 a week, a new garda earns €548 a week for example, and a lot more as he goes up the scales unlike the army private.

The army do work weekends and nights, just go past any barrack. the ones left open that is.

Im glad you cant have a m16 in you backyard, we can see how easy access to weapons in the US has really helped public security....
 
8,500 Army
1,144 Navy
850 Air Corps (as per www.military.ie)

As an island nation, does the balance not sound wrong? Would we not be better off with smaller numbers of land-based staff and more guys and gals in ships and planes?

"Provide security for cash vans in transit
So the protection of a private transaction is done by the Defence Forces? I can understand that it’s getting more dangerous to transport money between banks, but do we really need the Army doing that? In other countries it’s down to the company providing the service or the police. I know we have this notion that our police force should not be armed but wake up and smell the coffee it’s 2009!"

Apparently the Banks make a contribution to the State in defraying cash-in-transit costs, for Army and Garda personnel. Getting fire-arms licences for private individuals in this country is (thank God) difficult, although protection officers for various visiting heads of state were, by various accounts, exempted from the licencing requirements.

Some years ago, friends of mine in the Armed Forces (this predates the establishment of the Armed Forces Union) were on the point of refusing to man joint Army-Garda check-points and cash-in-transit protection operations if the Guards were armed.

The lack of safety, proper training and fire-arms awareness displayed at the time by armed Guards was terrifying by all accounts. I believe the Army guys made their thoughts known to their local Army commander at the time, a well known sports personality, and fire-arms training for Guards (provided by the Army ?) improved afterwards.

Having been a member of various gun-clubs down the years, I think the training given to fire-arms novices by highly trained and experienced volunteer safety officers, serving or retired Army and Garda personnel is exemplary.
 
mathepac said:
Some years ago, friends of mine in the Armed Forces (this predates the establishment of the Armed Forces Union) were on the point of refusing to man joint Army-Garda check-points and cash-in-transit protection operations if the Guards were armed.

The lack of safety, proper training and fire-arms awareness displayed at the time by armed Guards was terrifying by all accounts. I believe the Army guys made their thoughts known to their local Army commander at the time, a well known sports personality, and fire-arms training for Guards (provided by the Army ?) improved afterwards.
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Indeed - If I recall correctly, the official army briefing for soldiers going out on these joint operations started off with something like 'A Guard with a gun is a fool'.
 
contemporary said:
The army do work weekends and nights, just go past any barrack. the ones left open that is.
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What exactly do they 'work' at, at night-time?

As far as I can determine, the defence forces' main 'job' is to maintain, feed and cloth itself. There are there to defend the country against subversives, drug smugglers, illegal fishermen and-God forbid- anybody mad enough to try and form a coup.

The question is; are they worth 500m per annum in wages? And then there's the pension costs. Plus costs of feeding, clothing and housing them. I think we could cut down to about 1,000.
 
A barracks cannot close down totally if you have a lot of firearms within so a certain level of security has to be maintained round the clock. I presume a certain amount of their training and manoeuvres etc take place in the night also. I imagine prison security is round the clock. There is probably more that we're not aware of.
 
Ash 22 said:
A barracks cannot close down totally if you have a lot of firearms within so a certain level of security has to be maintained round the clock. I presume a certain amount of their training and manoeuvres etc take place in the night also. I imagine prison security is round the clock. There is probably more that we're not aware of.
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Bears out my point that the army's job is to maintain itself. As for prison security, that is not a job appropriate to the Defence forces. do they actually do that? Do other country's armies do that for their prisons?
 
Welfarite said:
What exactly do they 'work' at, at night-time?

As far as I can determine, the defence forces' main 'job' is to maintain, feed and cloth itself. There are there to defend the country against subversives, drug smugglers, illegal fishermen and-God forbid- anybody mad enough to try and form a coup.

The question is; are they worth 500m per annum in wages? And then there's the pension costs. Plus costs of feeding, clothing and housing them. I think we could cut down to about 1,000.
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The bomb squad sped past few a few nights ago, i suppose thats one thing they "work" at, at night. unless bombs only go off between 9-5..

Guarding the central banks mint is also a 24 hour job

They are at protlaoise prison due to the number of terrorists housed there

See below for an interesting read of army activity at the prison, it does go back a bit mind you
[broken link removed]
 
Going back to the original question
The armed forces of any country must be prepared to defend the country - so they train and wait. Very boring job, according a very unscientific and statistically incorrect survey which I carried out of soldiers that I know.

As has been pointed out, they also perform civil defence duties.

I dont think this is any different to any other country.

For example, France has a population of 65m. Their armed forces consists of
260,000 regular force, 420 regular reservists, 100K civil defence personnel
Of these, approx 36K are abroad on foreign operations at any time on average.
(Their military budget is 67B$).

Assuming that the Gendarmes ( civial defence) are busy, the reservists have regular jobs, there must be 224,000 French soldiers training and waiting in Frence military barracks.

Its the same in most countries in peace time
 
The bomb squad sped past few a few nights ago, i suppose thats one thing they "work" at, at night. unless bombs only go off between 9-5..
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They don't just go out to 'bombs going off'. They have to investigate any suspicious items that may or may not be an explosive device. The guys in Athlone mention they get called out all the time, all over the country, just to investigate.
 
huskerdu said:
Going back to the original question
The armed forces of any country must be prepared to defend the country - so they train and wait. Very boring job, according a very unscientific and statistically incorrect survey which I carried out of soldiers that I know.

Its the same in most countries in peace time
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But is there any point to it? After all, what are the chances of us being invaded by a country with an army small enough for us to beat it?

And is it true that we have the only navy in the world where you can go home for lunch?
 
You know, Berlin, a pretty big army was (eventually) beaten by a much smaller organisation in 1916 -1921.
 
The pretty big war finished in 1918 and the pretty big army could spare about 50 battalions plus auxiliaries for Ireland.

Have a look at "Guerilla Days in Ireland" by Tom Barry, which will give you a good idea of the relative numbers and the difference in levels of armaments.
 
QED said:
What do the approx 10,000 employees of the Department of Defence actually do all day? quote]

I started this thread 7 months ago and while I still believe there is a lot of waste in the Defence Forces, I think I should acknowledge the amount of good work done by them during the recent floods and snow.
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What a stupid question set by QED. The question is up there with the most brain-dead questions you can get.

Along with protecting the people of this country the army is tagged with working in dangerous conditions like rescuing people in atrocious weather conditions and locations. The army brings water to people who need it e.g due to the recent floods in Cork.

The army is laboured with clearing up when there is a bin strike.

When there is civil unrest the army augments the Garda Force.

Remember the Army Bomb Disposal people risk their lives every week.

The army protects our banks, shipment of cash, VIP visitors.

A more interesting question is What does the army not do?

Etc etc.
 
Leper said:
What a stupid question set by QED. The question is up there with the most brain-dead questions you can get.

Along with protecting the people of this country the army is tagged with working in dangerous conditions like rescuing people in atrocious weather conditions and locations. The army brings water to people who need it e.g due to the recent floods in Cork.

The army is laboured with clearing up when there is a bin strike.

When there is civil unrest the army augments the Garda Force.

Remember the Army Bomb Disposal people risk their lives every week.

The army protects our banks, shipment of cash, VIP visitors.

A more interesting question is What does the army not do?

Etc etc.
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Leper,

The OP asked a question looking for clarification about the daily tasks of the Defence Forces. I would not describe the question as stupid in any way. I do not know what the daily tasks of every job in the country and would hate to think that any question I may ask about such would be viewed as stupid.

Personally, I would find very little interesting about what the army does not do but maybe that because of my 13 years and continuing service.

If anyone has any questions on the Defence Forces I would be happy to answer them if I can.
 
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