Welcome to a minority government (well Irish style)

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DublinTexas

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So our esteemed TD’s Jummy Devins and Eamon Scanlon decide to resign from the party whip over the transfer of breast cancer services. And while Mr. Scanlon says he would vote with the opposition on a private members motion about the transfer Mr Devins has not made such statement. And both also did not clarify if they are now are going to stop supporting the government or are looking for deals like so many of the other independent TD’s supporting Zanu FF.

How stupid do these people think the public is?

Resigning from the Whip but continuing to support the fearless leader in all other matters? Resign from the Dail and give the local public the option to give you support for your half baked measurement might be a better idea.

While now technical the fearless leader is down to a minority government (82 out of 166) given that these esteemed TD’s are not really resigned from Zanu FF it’s just another example how they have no respect for the public.
 
It will will be idiot FF backbenchers who'll end up being the biggest cause of the financial problems in this country.

They sat back and said nothing for years while we squandered public money and allowed the property market to overheat.

I can see them voting down the first steps on the road to recovery in the December budget and that will ultimately send the country into a terminal freefall.

It's democracy gone completely wrong.
 
I heard Mr. Devine yesterday on the news... he said that he resigned the whip but not the party... that it was not a maneouvre to protect his seat but in protest of the withdrawal of breast services from Sligo general, that his continued support for government in the Dail would be considered on individual merits... that he was in support of the national cancer strategy but not breast cancer services being removed from Sligo general. I cant help but think that if these two TD's were any way serious about the importance of breast services being retained in Sligo... why didnt they just resign from the FF party or confirm that they would not support the government like what the protest group for the retention of services had asked them to do?
 
Wouldn't you love to dump all but about twenty of them and see how the country fares? It would certainly save the taxpayer some bills, never mind their pensions.

FWIW

ONQ
 
DublinTexas said:
How stupid do these people think the public is?
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Very stupid and they are probably right, how many times has Michael Lowry been elected since he resigned as Minister? How anyone one could vote for him after the McCracken report is beyond me....Politicians pull these stunts cause they know they can get away with them
 
DerKaiser said:
It will will be idiot FF backbenchers who'll end up being the biggest cause of the financial problems in this country.

They sat back and said nothing for years while we squandered public money and allowed the property market to overheat.

I can see them voting down the first steps on the road to recovery in the December budget and that will ultimately send the country into a terminal freefall.

It's democracy gone completely wrong.
Click to expand...

I agree completely there are signs that a number of FF backbenchers will jump ship to save their own seats....absolute extreme selfishness
 
YOBR said:
Very stupid and they are probably right, how many times has Michael Lowry been elected since he resigned as Minister? How anyone one could vote for him after the McCracken report is beyond me....Politicians pull these stunts cause they know they can get away with them
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In Tipperary North Lowry is a god like person. To the locals he can do no wrong. He has delivered for the locals time and time again, hence they keep electing him.
 
Our politicians do not have the expertise to run a health service so we employ experts to help. We have employed a person of international renown in the deevelopment of cancer services. His recomendation based on his experience are to have a National Cancer strategy which has treatments based at certain locations. The idea being that Cancer Specialists will have the required volume of cases to maintain and develops skills, research and provide a top class sevice to all patients.
Instead of agreeing with this strategy our gombeen T.D. s of all parties want to have a Cancer Specialist in every hospital in the country and if that is not feasible to have it in the hospital in their constituency.

God forbid that I would get cancer but I would prefer to take my chances with Prof. Keanes strategy than with Jimmy Devins and his crew
 
Yorrick said:
Our politicians do not have the expertise to run a health service so we employ experts to help. We have employed a person of international renown in the deevelopment of cancer services. His recomendation based on his experience are to have a National Cancer strategy which has treatments based at certain locations. The idea being that Cancer Specialists will have the required volume of cases to maintain and develops skills, research and provide a top class sevice to all patients.
Instead of agreeing with this strategy our gombeen T.D. s of all parties want to have a Cancer Specialist in every hospital in the country and if that is not feasible to have it in the hospital in their constituency.

God forbid that I would get cancer but I would prefer to take my chances with Prof. Keanes strategy than with Jimmy Devins and his crew
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+1
You are spot on. Those clowns typify everything that is wrong with the Irish electorate (the politicians are a symptom of the problem, not the cause).
 
Yorrick said:
Our politicians do not have the expertise to run a health service so we employ experts to help. We have employed a person of international renown in the deevelopment of cancer services. His recomendation based on his experience are to have a National Cancer strategy which has treatments based at certain locations. The idea being that Cancer Specialists will have the required volume of cases to maintain and develops skills, research and provide a top class sevice to all patients.
Instead of agreeing with this strategy our gombeen T.D. s of all parties want to have a Cancer Specialist in every hospital in the country and if that is not feasible to have it in the hospital in their constituency.

God forbid that I would get cancer but I would prefer to take my chances with Prof. Keanes strategy than with Jimmy Devins and his crew
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I agree with your point with the exception of one important issue - Prof. Drumm was not an "expert" in health service management - he was a paed consultant whose experience was in managing a clinical dept and team in a childrens hospital... so what expertise does this bring to running and managing the entire HSE? Surely, somebody with business acumen should have been appointed.
 
bond-007 said:
He has delivered for the locals time and time again, hence they keep electing him.
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It would interest me to know what he has delivered that has enabled to the electorate in North Tipp to disregard his tax evasion and his lies to the Oireachtas. As far as I can see he took the route of blaming everything on the Dublin "mejaa" who were out to get him..
 
Health is a business - and it needs to be run like a business. That is why you need world reknown health management experts with proven business acumen that are non affiliated to any political party or have any conflict of interest. Unfortunately with the exception of Prof. Keane - and the cancer strategy - this does not exist in Ireland. We had the old boy political appointees on the old health board system and today the same - well our health system needs no explanation in relation to its efficacy. Hospitals for instance need to be run on performance basis where funding is awarded on throughput - the more activity the more money. Acute services need to be totally separated with separate trauma units so elective procedures can be undertaken without any encroachment on emergency trauma procedures. The Brennan Report is an interesting read (I thoroughly recommed it) - its findings clearly indicate that the services shortcomings and pinpoint the need for a business model. How much money was wasted on PPAR's and nobody was ever held accountable - would this level of waste be tolerated in a business environment? Then we had Consultants who purposely were not filling in forms for their private patients so that the public hospitals in whose facilities they were operating could not invoice the private insurers for payment. These self-interest groups need to be tackled.... but dont get me started!
 
Will the people of Sligo get a Darwin Award this year?

It looks like they'd rather stay local and die from cancer than travel to a centre of excellence.
 
That is their lookout.

Just go back to the time of the famine. More stupidity back then.
 
annet said:
Health is a business - and it needs to be run like a business. That is why you need world reknown health management experts with proven business acumen that are non affiliated to any political party or have any conflict of interest. Unfortunately with the exception of Prof. Keane - and the cancer strategy - this does not exist in Ireland. We had the old boy political appointees on the old health board system and today the same - well our health system needs no explanation in relation to its efficacy. Hospitals for instance need to be run on performance basis where funding is awarded on throughput - the more activity the more money. Acute services need to be totally separated with separate trauma units so elective procedures can be undertaken without any encroachment on emergency trauma procedures. The Brennan Report is an interesting read (I thoroughly recommed it) - its findings clearly indicate that the services shortcomings and pinpoint the need for a business model. How much money was wasted on PPAR's and nobody was ever held accountable - would this level of waste be tolerated in a business environment? Then we had Consultants who purposely were not filling in forms for their private patients so that the public hospitals in whose facilities they were operating could not invoice the private insurers for payment. These self-interest groups need to be tackled.... but dont get me started!
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Some nice back-pedalling there, Annet! There is a big difference between "world reknown health management experts with proven business acumen" (which I wouldn´t disagree with) and "somebody with business acumen".

Health isn´t a business. It is a public service. The objective of a business is to make money. The objective of a public service is to provide services to the public. There is of course a need for huge changes in our current health service, but the primary requirement for new staff should not be ´business acumen´.
 
Caveat said:
Fair enough, not literally - but do you agree or not agree that it needs to be 'run like a business' in any sense of that phrase?
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I don't think it can...or should. One thing we have to take out of the current debate is current private healthcare. This looks good and runs well because it is a "luxury" and can charge a premium. It isn 't operating in an open market where there is a universal demand for it.

In my opinion, if it was completely private, then you would end up with a Ryanair/Aer Lingus scenario. A private "no frills" system for those who can't afford the nice fancy seats, free muffin, lunch etc. Staff wouldn't be paid much, the doctors would be at the lower pay grade, all would be expected to do much more for a lot less. And then the fancy premium stuff.

Some may argue that's what we have now, but just because the Irish model of a total public way of running the health service isn't working, doesn't mean a complete opposite model is the best version.

Yes, some sense of efficient business type models and means would help, but it doesn't mean a complete eye to private business operations.
 
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