Water dripping from roof in attic

I would be interested to know if the problems is greater with Tru-tone/slate type tiles. I would think that the older cement type roofing tiles would absorb the water and allow the roof to breath

Hi roker,

I understood that the previous poster's problem was that there was condensation on the underside of the felt.

The felt is the first thing rising warm moist air meets - i.e. before it could hit the underside of cement/clay tiles it would condense on the felt.

ONQ.
 
My storage tank and heating tank has been mounted about 6 feet up in the loft, on a timber frame, I don't know why, but it is imposible to lag it or keep it warm. Is there some new logic for doing this? possibly better pressure for the shower, should I get a plumber to relocate it above the hot press.?

This is unusual in my experience, but aren't you lucky to have such a high loft - plenty head height for a conversion!
Water pressure may have been a factor originally, or simply the builder/plumber thinking he was doing you a favour by raising it up to give you storage area below, without realising the problems this might bring.

Modern pumped showers will do away with cold pressure issues assuming you have enough pressure from the HWC in the hot press.
Thus you could relocate, making sure you also relocate your overflow pipes [as well as supply pipes] and any associated header tank for the HW/heating system.
I would advise that you should only use a certified plumber for a job like this as there may be other issues not immediately recognisable from your post above.
You would them proceed to leave no insulation under the tank in its new position and continue the insulation layer from the ceiling below up the sides of the tank and install an insulated cover.

However you could also leave as is, dropping lightweight timber posts from the tank to ceiling level and wrapping the four cornered perimeter they form in quilted insulation or fixing rigid insulation to them to form a duct up which heat could rise.
You would be removing insulation from the ceiling just below this, naturally, and surrounding the tank sides and installing an insulated tank cover also.

FWIW

ONQ.

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Hi Jeananne,

Answers interspersed below:

I have noticed several small damp patches on plasterboard in attic partial conversion near ( but i think unrelated to ) velux window in our 7 year old house - this has happened in the last week and I assume has something to do with the very cold weather and condensation...
It may not be unrelated to the velux - they can cause pockets of dead air to be created above and below them by the trimmer rafters interrupting the continuous 50mm air gap there should be above any insulation following the slope of the roof.

Here is a link to Part F to help explain that

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1647,en.pdf

Dia 6 P. 11 refers
Checked out attic insulation and discovered one area between rafters, about 5 feet in length had no insulation at all ( I've filled in the gap with some spare ) and also in the main attic the extractor fan from the infrequently used ensuite vents directly into the attic space !!!
Is this a big deal and can I fix it by attaching a hose and directing the extractor air to a nearby vent in the eves ???
It depends on whether or not this vent was intended to receive a hose - it should have a facility to receive a circular hose or clip a connector into place.
It may have been added to help vent the attic in which case attaching the hose would prevent this - in that case, no, not a good idea.
Also while i'm up there should i cover the 2 large water tanks and if so with what ?
Thanks

Solid insulation board is usually used for a cover, and quilted insualtion is usually used for the sides.
Cover and surround them but keep the underside of them clear of insulation.

Unfortunately the problems you describe are all too common in the building industry. Deadlines within which to complete works stages, rolls of insulation not being delivered or even being pilfered off sites mean that problems not addressed can get covered up by even the most well-intentioned contractor.

At the risk of veering wildly off topic there are new developments coming down the pipe which will affect us all.

[broken link removed]

Sorry for the ridiculously long URL, but that's the way it came.
 
Attic space needs to be ventiltated properly.

If no special roof tile vents are present, you need soffit ventilators every 600mm along each side of the roof and there needs to be clear air from the soffit ventilators up into the attic space, if the space is filled/over-packed with insultaion this will render the ventilators useless.

Basically, air draughts need to flow in one side of the roof, up and back down exiting the other side, This will keep your attic nice and dry.

If ventilators are not fitted, or not enough are fitted ( you really do need one every 600mm), it need not be a huge job to retrofit them.
I have first hand experience of having this problem and fixing it in my garage.

Previous post:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=99202
 
Thanks ong for the reply. Sorry gone off the damp problem slightly. The shower is a mixer tap on the bath, The other shower is an electric shower with water from the mains via a pressure regulator. I think I will lower the tanks over the hot press and for maintenance purposes also. It was 2.6°C in the loft last night and -1° outside.

Is it necessary to have the primary circuit header tank the same hight as the main header tank? or would it be easy to convert to a sealed sytem for the primary circuit?
 
Thank you onq for that very comprehensive reply.
I thought the damp patches were unrelated to the velux because they follow one horizontal line extending between 1 foot and 4 feet away from the actual window, at a height that is 2/3 way up the velux (it looks like the condensation is running off along a joint/beam???) I'm hoping that the missing insulation being filled in might rectify the condensation there as it was in the side attic off that room...
Re. the vent in the soffitt in the upper attic I'd say it's definately there to ventilate the attic as it is the only vent on the high gable end of the house and there is a corresponding one on the other gable...so I better not divert the extractor fan air that way. Might try to get the builder involved, but it's 7 years since he finished so that will be a long shot (well he's a nice man, and probably not too busy right now !!! ).
 
Thank you onq for that very comprehensive reply.
I thought the damp patches were unrelated to the velux because they follow one horizontal line extending between 1 foot and 4 feet away from the actual window, at a height that is 2/3 way up the velux (it looks like the condensation is running off along a joint/beam???) I'm hoping that the missing insulation being filled in might rectify the condensation there as it was in the side attic off that room...
Re. the vent in the soffitt in the upper attic I'd say it's definately there to ventilate the attic as it is the only vent on the high gable end of the house and there is a corresponding one on the other gable...so I better not divert the extractor fan air that way. Might try to get the builder involved, but it's 7 years since he finished so that will be a long shot (well he's a nice man, and probably not too busy right now !!! ).

Hi Jeananne,

The important thing is to maintain the 50mm ventilation gap above/behind the insulation to carry air laden with water vapour away before condensation can form.

You also need to try and check the passage of water vapour into the space in the first place.

Your assessment of the progress of the moisture may be the correct one, and this is turn may suggest there is not a continuous 50mm air gap.

Without opening up, I cannot advice further but purlin supports should ve under that rafters and the air gap is usually along the top two inches of rafter.

HTH

ONQ

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Just to report back. The weather must have been really exceptionally humid during the last few days causing condensation. I noticed that the downstairs toilet cistern which is fed directly from the house main supply, was condensing water so bad that it was running down and across the tiled floor, I never saw this before, we thought at first that one of our guests was missing the pan. This has now stopped as the weather became dryer. Of course this has shown up faults in many people’s attic installation which now require drying out and fixing. I found that the builders had installed the insulation over the soffit vent which I am in the process of fixing, they also took the ducting from the extractor to the soffit vent and no further, so it is not exactly going outside. (not sure how to do this yet) do these vent just click into the plastic soffits? I have also the freezing tank problem to fix. Thanks "onq" for all your advice
 
I noticed that the downstairs toilet cistern which is fed directly from the house main supply, was condensing water so bad that it was running down and across the tiled floor...

...they also took the ducting from the extractor to the soffit vent and no further, so it is not exactly going outside. (not sure how to do this yet) do these vent just click into the plastic soffits?

My extractor is installed in the same way as described... I would be interested in other alternatives?

I experienced the same over the weekend with the toilet.. never seen this before!
 
My extractor is installed in the same way as described... I would be interested in other alternatives?

I experienced the same over the weekend with the toilet.. never seen this before!

Turn on the heat in your Bathrooms/Toilets.

The body of the cistern is most likely below dewpoint.

This is may be due to the temperature of the water in your attic tank.

HTH

ONQ
 
Just to report back. The weather must have been really exceptionally humid during the last few days causing condensation. I noticed that the downstairs toilet cistern which is fed directly from the house main supply, was condensing water so bad that it was running down and across the tiled floor, I never saw this before, we thought at first that one of our guests was missing the pan. This has now stopped as the weather became dryer.
The issue is possibly exacerbated by the temperature of the supply water dropping - I've certainly noticed drop in temperature of the [potable] cold water tap in the kitchen as the cold spell continues.
Of course this has shown up faults in many people’s attic installation which now require drying out and fixing.
Just remember that these are extreme conditions and that matters will tend to improve.
The cold causes even the normal amounts of vapour-checked water vapour in attics to condense on surfaces which are above the insulation and so have become very cold because of the extended cold spell.
I would be a little concerned about the ability of damp or wet fibreglass to dry out properly and this should be monitored.
Rockwool should reputedly have less of a problem.
I found that the builders had installed the insulation over the soffit vent which I am in the process of fixing, they also took the ducting from the extractor to the soffit vent and no further, so it is not exactly going outside. (not sure how to do this yet) do these vent just click into the plastic soffits?

No, these shouldn't be vented to soffits usually as a bare minimum you could get bad smells around the house.

Also check these are simple vents and not foul pipe discharge stacks taken insude to keep a "clean look" on the building elevations.
For stack discharge vents the end of the pipe need to be a 900mm above windows nearer than 3000mm.
Usually these extract to a vent pipe through the roof or a vented slate or tile - a specialist item.

Here is TGD Part H of the Building Regulations:
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1649,en.pdf
Diagram 5 Page 8 refers.

For ordinary steam or WC vents through a cold attic you have to remember that warm air rises and the surface of the flexible duct can get cold so making the volume of air hit the top of a curved duct on its way to the eaves is just inviting the water vapour in it to condense and run back down the ducting both ways.

I've seen examples of such ducts going down into the cavity walling resulting in smells coming into the house.

Straight up and out is the best way.

In relation to the soffit vents ensure you keet a 50mm clear gap from them into the attic proper - don't just clear insulation from the vents.
I have also the freezing tank problem to fix.

Well, you should be an expert from all the advice posted.
:)
Thanks "onq" for all your advice
You are all very welcome - no point letting a difficult situation become a crisis due to lack of knowledge and I am always happoy to stand correct also - the most dangerous assumptions are based on obsolete information.

ONQ.

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