US ETFs no longer purchasable in Europe

Discussion in 'Investments' started by username123, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. Dardania

    Dardania Registered User

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    Could definitely see this happening - it could be as sly as requiring PRSI contributions when retired to maintain health care eligibility, with means testing to define the rate of payment.

    I'm hopeful this initiative gains steam, so I can get my pension the hell out of Ireland: https://www.ft.com/content/731a27b4-5cb0-11e7-b553-e2df1b0c3220
     
  2. RETIRED2017

    RETIRED2017 Frequent Poster

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    Is USC paid on pension Don't hear much about FG promise in the last election to get rid of it,
     
  3. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

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    There no relief from USC on the way in, and you pay USC on the way out.

    So not great in other words!
     
  4. RETIRED2017

    RETIRED2017 Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    I am very interested in seeing how Leo handles this at one stage he was on for putting USC in with PRSI it did not happen in the budget so they are already creaming extra from pensions by not doing so

    Leo pension will be post 1995 he is paying the higher PRSI ,
    A lot of the tax breaks in the past were designed so people in the private sector could have a pension every bit as good as the public sector if the took advantage of the tax breaks,
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  5. AJAM

    AJAM Registered User

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    I think I am going to start a petition. I'd appreciate a bit of feed back on the text below, especially if I've made any errors.

    Petition to Scrap the 41% Exit Tax on Investment Funds and Replace it with Capital Gains Tax

    Ireland is one of the leading regulated domiciles for internationally distributed investment funds and exchange traded funds (ETF's). The Irish tax regime has been, and continues to be, one of the key growth drivers of the funds industry in Ireland. The Irish tax treatment of these funds encourages big institutional investors and small individual off-shore investors across the world to use Irish domiciled funds, which, as a result, has seen billions of euro flow into them.
    The one group who don't benefit from this is small Irish Investors. The current tax treatment of UCTIS ETF's and other unit linked funds means small Irish investors must pay 41% tax on any gains that they realize from their investments. This compares prohibitively to investing in individual stocks where the capital gains rate of 33% applies.
    Furthermore investors in individual stocks can offset losses against gains, while ETF investors can not, leaving them at a significant disadvantage. i.e. if you invest in 2 ETF's and one has loss and one a gain, you must pay tax on the gain and get no benefit from the loss. On top of this ETF investors must pay the 41% tax after 8 years, whether or not they sell their investment, under the again overly-complicated "deemed disposal" rule.
    Low cost, broadly diversified exchange traded funds (ETFs) are the best way for ordinary people to get access to and benefit from the stock market. However the current Irish tax treatment completely discourages investment in diversified ETF's and encourages investment in risky single stocks. This can be seen in revenues own figures as the tax take from exit tax is falling (as investors flee these products) while the tax take from Capital gains is rising.
    The current, overly-complicated unit exit tax system should be scrapped and replaced with capital gains tax giving a fair, level playing field for all investors.
     
    cian8, MrEarl, Eoghan and 3 others like this.
  6. RETIRED2017

    RETIRED2017 Frequent Poster

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    Dirt rate Budget 2017 down from 41% to 33% Do you know was there any pre- budget submissions along the lines you are suggesting,
     
  7. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    @AJAM

    That all looks accurate to me.

    Fair play to you and best of luck with this exercise.
     
  8. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    Eh, DIRT in 2018 is not levied @33% - it's levied @37%. It's not scheduled to reduce to 33% until 2020.

    Regardless, exit tax is still levied at 41%.
     
  9. RETIRED2017

    RETIRED2017 Frequent Poster

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    thanks for the correction on dirt tax
     
    Sarenco likes this.
  10. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    No problem - and apologies if I sounded a bit snarky.

    FWIW I think it's outrageous that DIRT hasn't been (and apparently won't be) reduced to the standard rate of income tax.

    Why should a pensioner (or anybody else for that matter) with a modest income have to pay DIRT @37% (or 33% for that matter)?
     
  11. Protocol

    Protocol Frequent Poster

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    People over 65 who are exempt from income tax don't pay DIRT.

    18/36k limits.
     
  12. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster

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    They ( pensioners) dont !
     
  13. fistophobia

    fistophobia Frequent Poster

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    There was a pre-budget submission on the exit tax, think it was by the Life Insurance body LIA.
    I think it would be more effective if pressure came from the funds industry itself, such as IFIA.
    Really, private investors dont stand a chance by making such requests - would be seen as elitist.
     
  14. AJAM

    AJAM Registered User

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    I get your point, but I don't think it's elitist at all. Elites have tax advisers who can off shore these types of problems away. This is trying to give ordinary Joe a fair crack at the whip. It's more likely to be seen as aspirational! Although in Ireland, this may be seen as even worse than elitism!

    Look, we've a minority government, their ability to ignore the public is probably the lowest it might ever be. If we get a couple of thousand signatures, it could be enough to force them to at least think about it.
    If you're not it, you can't win.
     
  15. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    They do unless they are over 65 and their total income is below the annual exemption limit.
     
  16. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster

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    well i thought you meant low income pensioners who would nearly always be over 65 when in receipt of pensions , i wouldnt be too concerned about a guard who retired in his fifties and got hit with the full DIRT tax , ditto with any other public servant on a fat pension
     
  17. Dardania

    Dardania Registered User

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  18. RETIRED2017

    RETIRED2017 Frequent Poster

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    I will be watching how this situation plays out ,I think I seen Joe Costello from Labour on the clip shown on rte news last night he was in the background I think,
     
  19. settlement

    settlement Frequent Poster

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    Jesus. That slid in under the radar. What motivated this? It seems it's not just Ireland, all of Europe.
     
  20. joe sod

    joe sod Frequent Poster

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    "Tax breaks to “wealthy individuals” who take out private pensions should be “reviewed” as one measure to address inequalities in the State pension introduced six years ago, according to a coalition of older people’s and women’s organisations."

    a quote from the article, at this rate Ireland will be more socialist than Scandinavia but there will be nobody left to pay for it. Ireland pays out among the highest social welfare payments in europe. Alot of the tax to pay for this actually comes from corporation tax that the government gets from the US multinationals. Therefore ireland internationally is the most capitalist of all european countries in order to grab as much corporate tax as possible to pay for the most socialist of welfare systems. However this may not last much longer with european governments about to grab their share of this. If they try and do this (abolish pension tax break) there will be a mass exodus of high net worth and skilled workers out of ireland