Urgent Help needed - Speaking to Ombudsman on Wednesday

0028673

Registered User
Messages
27
It's impossible to tell on the information provided.

Strictly speaking, I would say no. She didn't have to take the mortgage. She could have gone elsewhere. You keep fixating on it being her PDH - tracker rates were still available at AIB and elsewhere for PDH mortgages. There's something about the circumstances that you're not sharing, and it might be very very subtle.
The nub of the issue is that she was on a Tracker mortgage in 2007. She looked for a top up on the tracker mortgage a few months later which she assumed she was signing up to and did not read the fine print which locked her into a Buy to let rate. My understanding is that at this time Tracker mortgages were still available up to October 2008. I feel she was taken advantage of by the Bank whereby the original mortgage and top up were put on a less favourable mortgage rate. Also it was done incorrectly as this house was not a buy to let property. She always lived in this home.
I am not concealing any facts at all.
 

RedOnion

Frequent Poster
Messages
4,596
I am not concealing any facts at all.
Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of concealing anything. You posted a very small amount of information, looking for help.
I've genuinely tried to help you.

It makes absolutely no sense that a bank would change a PDH mortgage to a BTL one. Or that they would give a BTL mortgage to a sole mortgage holder for their PDH. If there's nothing else going on, then she has a reason to be aggrieved.

But if there's a genuine reason that the bank would only lend as a BTL, it's different. Hence the question about sole / joint name. Or another example - was the site still in parents names?

I wish you well on Wednesday.
 

Banemore

Registered User
Messages
9
They is a whole load of questions that need to answered here and in my opinion its the bank that need to answer them.
1. IF its proven that this property was PPD why was they a BTL mortgage on it??
2. The bank in my opinion did not have tbe best interests of its customer when extra money was requested. Why was 2 loans amalgamated together and not separate which would have a better for its customer??.
3.Why is a signature been used here for the protection of the bank to keep her in a contract that was never asked for?? Mistakes of the past by banks should NOT be upheld on a signature of a person.
I wish you good luck on Wednesday i do believe you have a case to be answered.
 

0028673

Registered User
Messages
27
Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of concealing anything. You posted a very small amount of information, looking for help.
I've genuinely tried to help you.

It makes absolutely no sense that a bank would change a PDH mortgage to a BTL one. Or that they would give a BTL mortgage to a sole mortgage holder for their PDH. If there's nothing else going on, then she has a reason to be aggrieved.

But if there's a genuine reason that the bank would only lend as a BTL, it's different. Hence the question about sole / joint name. Or another example - was the site still in parents names?

I wish you well on Wednesday.
I appreciate your help Redonion. I understand that the Buy to let rate might look odd but at best it was a clerical error by the Bank. The mortgage is jointly held by her and her father on land where her father granted her the site to build her house. This site is adjacent to her parents house.

I feel very aggrieved for her. She is under enormous financial pressure as a result of this and has fallen into arrears with the mortgage.
Thanks for all your help.
 

Clamball

Frequent Poster
Messages
143
Do you have documentary evidence of what your relative requested when she asked for the €30K top up? I know we asked for a top up of our mortgage around 2003 and I was surprised when the bank, at time of drawdown of the top-up, closed our existing mortgage and opened up a new mortgage. It made no difference to us In our ability to repay but it was not what we requested, and I was very surprised when it happened. If the bank had said, you currently have a €100K mortgage with 18 years to run, we are going to change this to a 200K mortgage with 20 years to run, I would have been able to understand and ask what difference this made to me the customer, as I was expecting it to be a 200K mortgage with 18 years to run, etc etc.

So it sounds to me as if the father & daughter took out a joint mortgage on this new house which only the daughter lives in. They jointly requested an extra €30K? At the same rate/conditions as previously? And signed all documents provided, not realising they were changing to a new rate? Which they realised within a month when first payment became due? And wrote to bank immediately to rectify the mistake?

it will all depend on the paper trail, email, letters, record of calls. Have it all organised in chronological order for the call tomorrow.

on this date original mortgage, mortgage conrtact, mortgage application, etc

on this date application for top up, all supporting documents, letter of application, mortgage application docs etc

on this date new mortgage, mortgage contract, all correspondence etc

on this date issue noticed, correspondence with bank etc.

Best of luck.
 

notabene

Frequent Poster
Messages
378
Possibly a little late for you at this stage but I would bring as much documentation, letters, agreements, emails as you can and lay it out in as clear a format as possible with a summary document if you can - information being clear and consistent is essential when presenting them to the ombudsman.
 

0028673

Registered User
Messages
27
Do you have documentary evidence of what your relative requested when she asked for the €30K top up? I know we asked for a top up of our mortgage around 2003 and I was surprised when the bank, at time of drawdown of the top-up, closed our existing mortgage and opened up a new mortgage. It made no difference to us In our ability to repay but it was not what we requested, and I was very surprised when it happened. If the bank had said, you currently have a €100K mortgage with 18 years to run, we are going to change this to a 200K mortgage with 20 years to run, I would have been able to understand and ask what difference this made to me the customer, as I was expecting it to be a 200K mortgage with 18 years to run, etc etc.

So it sounds to me as if the father & daughter took out a joint mortgage on this new house which only the daughter lives in. They jointly requested an extra €30K? At the same rate/conditions as previously? And signed all documents provided, not realising they were changing to a new rate? Which they realised within a month when first payment became due? And wrote to bank immediately to rectify the mistake?


it will all depend on the paper trail, email, letters, record of calls. Have it all organised in chronological order for the call tomorrow.

on this date original mortgage, mortgage conrtact, mortgage application, etc

on this date application for top up, all supporting documents, letter of application, mortgage application docs etc

on this date new mortgage, mortgage contract, all correspondence etc

on this date issue noticed, correspondence with bank etc.

Best of luck.
That is it in a nutshell. I will share what documents I have and hopefully the Ombudsman will look favourably on this.
 

Mayoress

Registered User
Messages
7
Hi 0028673,

What stage of the ombudsman process are you/family member at.
If this is your first call it’s probably with a dispute resolution officer.
Outline your case & he/she will ask you what will resolve this issue.
Good luck., it’s a long process., my case with Ombudsman since Oct 2017...
 

NoRegretsCoyote

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,669
What stage of the ombudsman process are you/family member at.
If this is your first call it’s probably with a dispute resolution officer.
Outline your case & he/she will ask you what will resolve this issue.
Good luck., it’s a long process., my case with Ombudsman since Oct 2017...
@0028673

My personal experience is that the dispute resolution officers aren't very bright and are only interested in brokering an agreement between complainant and bank.

If you aren't happy with what they are proposing insist on adjudication. This will take a lot longer, but will be dealt with by someone more senior who knows the law a bit better.
 

0028673

Registered User
Messages
27
I spoke to a Dispute Resolution Officer on Wednesday. I was very much a fact finding exercise. I outlined my case and provided the backup of the original offer letter which stated that it was on a PDH at a tracker rate +.95% margin and the subsequent letter which was signed about a year later where it was changed to a Buy to let rate.

He stated that he would speak to the Bank to clarify why this rate was changed. AIB's notes outlined that it was always a Buy to let property which is simply not true.

Thanks to everyone for all their insights and comments. I will keep this thread updated and hopefully I will have a successful appeal.
 

bleary

Frequent Poster
Messages
366
Would it make a difference if the 30 k was essential to make the house habitable. In that case the owner would not have been able to change the mortgage to another provider and may have been forced to accept the new rate
 
Top