Unfinished roadworks in a relatively new housing estate in Athlone

R

REXO

Registered User
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Hi,
Does anyone have any advice on how to force the builder or county council to finish the roadworks in a relatively new housing estate. I moved into my new house 2 years ago and the builders have yet to lay the final layer of tar on the estate road. The manhole covers are sticking a mile up off the road surface and road is speckled with potholes. I get depressed driving through the estate entrance every evening. How do the county council allow builders to get away with it?
 
Re: Unfinished Housing Estate in Athlone

General it has nothing to do with the County Council as its a private estate.Normal the builder wont put the final surface on until the estste is complete as lorries & trucks would distroy the surface, is the estate complete or is there any future development for the estate?
What estate is it?
 
Re: Unfinished Housing Estate in Athlone

please distinguish between builders and developers. they are not the same.
 
Re: Unfinished Housing Estate in Athlone

The estate has been finished 2 years and theres no further development foreseeable.
What about the bond that the builders pay the county council before he starts work? ( this is paid as insurance) When the builder does not complete the estate , the council have access to this money to carry out the outstanding works themselves. This has not been done.:mad:

There are powers of enforcement and prosecution available to the County council laid down in the planning and development act to ensure that builders build in accordance with planning permission. The council engineers have sat ( and builder) on their hands. :mad:

My question is how to force the council to do their job. Eddie Hobbs spoke negatively about public sector work ethic. Im feeling the effect.:confused:

Can I/we sue the county council for dereliction of duty ( not implementing existing legislation to tackle rogue builders.
 
Re: Unfinished Housing Estate in Athlone

ludermor said:
please distinguish between builders and developers. they are not the same.
Click to expand...

The developer applies for planning permission. The builder pays the bond and is supposed to build the estate in accordance with the planning permission .....houses drainage walls etc
 
Re: Unfinished Housing Estate in Athlone

not sure about that, i would have thought the developer is ultimately responsible for the estate being build to spec. the builder is employed by the developer not the council
 
Re: Unfinished Housing Estate in Athlone

ludermor said:
not sure about that, i would have thought the developer is ultimately responsible for the estate being build to spec. the builder is employed by the developer not the council
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Its doesn't matter a hoot what anyone calls themselves ( had a spotty teenager fix my washing machine last week claiming to be an Engineer)

The bottom line is that a builder or developer handed over a guaranteed bond to the county council ( usually hundreds of thousands of euro depending on size of the estate as required in planning legislation).

This is handed over before commencing construction of the estate to guarantee completion of the esate in accordance with the planning permission.

Whether its a builder / developer or santa claus that paid the bond ,the county council have a duty to implement legislation and use this bond to complete the estate.

This hasn't happened in our case

Question again: Has anyone attempted to sue a county council for negligence?
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

County council aren't to blame, the builder has to complete the estate before the councl can take it in charge, some estates could be 20 years before they are taken in charge. there could be numerous problems with the estate, sewers, boundary walls etc., so the bond may not be able to pay for all works!!
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

hagimalone said:
County council aren't to blame, the builder has to complete the estate before the councl can take it in charge, some estates could be 20 years before they are taken in charge. there could be numerous problems with the estate, sewers, boundary walls etc., so the bond may not be able to pay for all works!!
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Exactly, I agree but the bond is only a fration of the story.

The County Council haven't implemented legislation that has always existed ie planning and development act to serve enforcement notices on the builder/developer/or whoever submitted commencement notice and paid over the bond and then prosecute the builder and fine him in

1.The county council have not used their enforcement powers
2. and they haven't used their powers to prosecute

This is all in the act in plain english, unfortunately some people like to keep it hush hush.

Fact
The council have failed to do their job.... i.e serve legal enforcement on whoever is responsible for building the estate and prosecute thereafter if required . Its simple. ( no waiting around 20 years blah blah)
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

hagimalone said:
County council aren't to blame, the builder has to complete the estate before the councl can take it in charge, some estates could be 20 years before they are taken in charge. there could be numerous problems with the estate, sewers, boundary walls etc., so the bond may not be able to pay for all works!!
Click to expand...

Of course they are to blame. Why bother applying for planning permission in the first place if they don't shoulder reponsibilities or blame?
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

What did the County Council planning department say when you contacted them....?
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

Spock said:
What did the County Council planning department say when you contacted them....?
Click to expand...

When I contacted them this time last year , they said that they would send an engineer out to investigate. The engineer confirmed that the final layer of tar had not been laid. They said they would pursue the matter with the builder.
The potholes in the bottom layer of tar were filled in 2 months later and tar ramps were built around the manhole covers to lesson damage to tyres... but still no final layer of tar .

I contacted them 1 month ago and they asked me to forward my complaint in writing. I asked them why enforcement porceedings or prosecutions had not taken place but as of yet I haven't received a reply.

Next stop Minister Dick Roche and maybe a slot on Prime Time , like those residents in the kildare estate managed to do last year.;)
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

Section 180 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 contains a new provision for taking in charge of housing estates including apartment blocks by local authorities as follows:-.

Where a development for which permission is granted under Section 34 or under part IV of the Planning Act 1963 and which includes the construction of two or more houses and the provision of new roads, open spaces, car parks, sewers, water mains or drains and the development has been completed to the satisfaction of the planning authority in accordance with the permission and any conditions to which the permission is subject, the authority shall, where requested by the person carrying out the development or subject to certain conditions by the majority of the qualified electors who are owners or occupiers of the houses involved as soon as may be, initiate the procedures under Section 11 of the Roads Act 1993. Section 11 of the Roads Act 1993 provides that a road authority may by order declare any road over which a public right of way exists to be a public road and every such road shall be deemed to be a public road and responsibility for its maintenance shall lie on the road authority.

Section 180, sub section IV of the Planning and Development Act 2000 provides then that where an order is made under Section 11 (i) of the Roads Act 1993 the Planning Authority shall in addition to the provision of that section take in charge any open spaces, car parks, sewers, water mains or drains within the attendant ground of the development.

If the estate is unfinished however, there is no obligation on the local authority to take it in charge during the seven year period during which enforcement action may be taken by the planning authority to ensure completion of the estate. This seven year period would only start to run from the date that the planning permission in relation to the development expires.
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

avantarklu said:
Section 180 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 contains a new provision for taking in charge of housing estates including apartment blocks by local authorities as follows:-.

Where a development for which permission is granted under Section 34 or under part IV of the Planning Act 1963 and which includes the construction of two or more houses and the provision of new roads, open spaces, car parks, sewers, water mains or drains and the development has been completed to the satisfaction of the planning authority in accordance with the permission and any conditions to which the permission is subject, the authority shall, where requested by the person carrying out the development or subject to certain conditions by the majority of the qualified electors who are owners or occupiers of the houses involved as soon as may be, initiate the procedures under Section 11 of the Roads Act 1993. Section 11 of the Roads Act 1993 provides that a road authority may by order declare any road over which a public right of way exists to be a public road and every such road shall be deemed to be a public road and responsibility for its maintenance shall lie on the road authority.

Section 180, sub section IV of the Planning and Development Act 2000 provides then that where an order is made under Section 11 (i) of the Roads Act 1993 the Planning Authority shall in addition to the provision of that section take in charge any open spaces, car parks, sewers, water mains or drains within the attendant ground of the development.

If the estate is unfinished however, there is no obligation on the local authority to take it in charge during the seven year period during which enforcement action may be taken by the planning authority to ensure completion of the estate. This seven year period would only start to run from the date that the planning permission in relation to the development expires.
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Before I jump off the nearest cliff, Im going to look for confrimation on the your last paragraph here. After spending 230000 euro on shoe box Im definitely not sitting back to look at potholes and raised kerbs and manhole covers for another 7 years (planning expired last year)

Theres nothing stopping council serving enforcement notices and prosecutions at the moment except laziness. Enough is enough
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

Unfortunately it is correct.

Alternatives include:
1. Make local authority take charge. Once you have a majority of residents on board, vote to request that your local authority “take in charge” the roads and any open spaces, car parks, sewers, water-mains, or drains within the grounds of the development.
(Source: Labour party leaflet on management companies)
I believe 60% of the registered-voters who reside (owners & tenants) can request that the local authority take the estate in charge. Don't know how this might work in practice.
(note: Not a member of the labour party or any other political party for that matter)

2. Start claiming against the developer, attaching the LA, for every accident\incident\damage that is casued due to the condition of the roads.
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

Thanks for all that information Avantarklu. Its gives us alot of different angles to work from.
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

avantarklu said:
Section 180 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 contains a new provision for taking in charge of housing estates including apartment blocks by local authorities as follows:-.

Where a development for which permission is granted under Section 34 or under part IV of the Planning Act 1963 and which includes the construction of two or more houses and the provision of new roads, open spaces, car parks, sewers, water mains or drains and the development has been completed to the satisfaction of the planning authority in accordance with the permission and any conditions to which the permission is subject, the authority shall, where requested by the person carrying out the development or subject to certain conditions by the majority of the qualified electors who are owners or occupiers of the houses involved as soon as may be, initiate the procedures under Section 11 of the Roads Act 1993. Section 11 of the Roads Act 1993 provides that a road authority may by order declare any road over which a public right of way exists to be a public road and every such road shall be deemed to be a public road and responsibility for its maintenance shall lie on the road authority.

Section 180, sub section IV of the Planning and Development Act 2000 provides then that where an order is made under Section 11 (i) of the Roads Act 1993 the Planning Authority shall in addition to the provision of that section take in charge any open spaces, car parks, sewers, water mains or drains within the attendant ground of the development.

If the estate is unfinished however, there is no obligation on the local authority to take it in charge during the seven year period during which enforcement action may be taken by the planning authority to ensure completion of the estate. This seven year period would only start to run from the date that the planning permission in relation to the development expires.
Click to expand...

"during which enforcement action may be taken by the planning authority to ensure completion of the estate"

Today I went to the council offices and they confirmed that the planning permission for the estate expired in Feb 2005. The Residents moved into the houses in Summer of 2004 despite incomplete road.
So this means that we're well into the period during which the council should be taking action ( 18 months and no enforcement action taken)

There cant be much work involved in drafting a enforcement letter and putting it in envelope and sending it out to the developer. Its hardly a thesis we're talking about or is it?
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

Is there a Residents Association you can use to lobby the builder/developer on your behalf..?
 
Re: Unfinished housing estate in Athlone

190 signed up members, but lobbying, letters, phonecalls ,politicians have got us nowhere. Someone has made a mistake somewhere and is doing their best to fob us off?
 
Have any private individuals/groups tried to sue a county council about anything. Is it worth it?
 
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