UN Hearings - Salisbury nerve agent attack

Discussion in 'Shooting the Breeze' started by TheBigShort, Apr 5, 2018.

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  1. Sunny

    Sunny Frequent Poster

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    The UK aren't saying that these guys brought the substance with them. At least I have never seen that accusation. As far as I know whatever was used was delivered separately. As for the discarding recklessly, what did you expect them to do if they were indeed sent there to kill people. I doubt their first thought was finding somewhere to handle hazardous waste.

    No offense but your stance on this is just plain odd. A woman died. People including a police officer were seriously ill. This wasn’t made up. It’s also not likely to be a local gang who suddenly gained access to a substance that could infect people like this. Anyone who believes the story of those two muppets on tv yesterday is deluded. They left without any luggage for gods sake. They had two sets of flights booked on separate days. There was no snow when they visited. They stayed in london even though they wanted to visit Salisbury. They just happened to be there the day of the attack. They are not gay tourists. They are not sports nutritionists. They were involved in whatever happened that day. And no links to the Salisbury journal is going to make your argument make sense. Russia carried out this attack. Russia was responsible for the shooting down of a passenger jet despite their denials then. Russia has been involved in at the least condoning and covering up chemical attacks in Syria. Everytime people like you come online with your ridiculous conspiracy theories, you are insulting those who died.

    I have this before but you do behave like a typical troll on every single thread.
     
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  2. Sunny

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    Of course you could also be based in a warehouse in Moscow sent to infiltrate Ireland’s online community with your pro kremlin mutterings. Indeed you could be here to destabilise Irish society through askaboutmoney. I can see why you like conspiracy theories so much. This is fun.
     
  3. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

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    Quite the rant.

    Which implies that other people were involved at some point in this attack. Im not aware of UK authorities looking for information on additional suspects are you?
    Traces of Novichok were apparently found at the hotel they stayed in. Given the short timeframe of their stay, given the apparently large amount of information on their movements, caught on CCTV, if they didn't travel with the perfume bottle, then a third person must be involved.

    According to Rowley who found the bottle, it was sealed.

    https://news.sky.com/story/novichok...ison-was-in-sealed-bottle-of-perfume-11447714

    Again the timeframe is odd. They re-sealed the bottle, disposed of it at an unknown location where it remained apparently undisturbed for several months.

    I dont think you know what my stance is.


    I never said it was. The perpetrators of this should be locked up for life.

    So you missed the bit where I said that their story stretches the realms of credibility?

    There was.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...isruption-storm-emma-beast-from-the-east-live

    People died in those hazardous snow conditions. Its not made up.

    According to the transcript of their interview, they wanted to have"some fun in London" and visit Salisbury.

    How do you know that?

    Perhaps, I dont know, certainly nothing has been produced that would stand up in a court.

    What is my argument? That these two are innocent? That Russia wasn't involved?
    I have never said any such thing.
    My argument is that everything that the UK authorities have produced is questionable, there are a lot of inconsistencies coupled with a lot of hyperbole.
    For instance, while everyone is jumping up and down pointing the finger at Russia, the Head of Scotland Yard counter-terrorism unit that is investigating the crime has said he has no evidence that the Russian state was involved.
    A pretty significant factor I would have thought or do you think his opinion doesn't count for much?

    Apparently you do not think much of his opinion. You obviously know more than the Head of Scotland Yards counter-terrorism unit. Be sure to pass on what information you have wont you?

    Yes, and they were also responsible for the assassination of a Russian journalist, until he turned up next day and admitted that he and Ukrainian authorities had planned his fake assassination for a month.

    It hasnt condoned any chemical attacks. Don't come on here calling me a troll when you are spouting rubbish like this.
    If Russia is engaged in covering up chemical attacks it should be rightly condemned and sanctioned.
    As for the Salisbury Journal, it doesn't prove or disprove anything either way. What it does do is add credence to the story that they may have just been tourists. I dont know if they were or not.
    You on the other hand have applied guilt to these two and the Russian state based on what exactly?
    A totally inconsistent, dubious, government and media witch hunt.
    I remember the last time this occured - WMD. I went on the views of Hans Blix, weapons inspector, who said they couldn't find any weapons. I would have been labelled a troll then too.
    But the media and government witch hunt and the baying sheep all stood in line and tolerated an illegal invasion that killed and destroyed the lives of innocent millions.

    Dont moralise me about people dying when this whole episode, propagated by faceless 'intelligence' is pushing for nothing more than more conflict.
     
  4. Purple

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    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    I don't believe the UK government's version of events either.
    I think that Russia is a hostile State which will and has murdered and assassinated people all over the world, including in their own country. I think that Russia is a force for evil in the world, is anti-democratic and a corrupt State run by a cabal of former KGB hardmen whose primary interest is self enrichment.
    That doesn't mean that the UK or the USA or any of our neighbours or allies is above dirty tricks which involve killing innocent people within their own borders.
    Most conflicts involve picking which set of bad guys to back. Syria is a prime example.
    I don't know who carried out the attack in Salisbury but neither side has any credibility.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  5. Ceist Beag

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    Good man Purple, I think you have succinctly summarised in a few lines what TBS was trying to say over 5 pages! :D BTW I agree. The only thing you can believe with any of these types of story is that you cannot believe anyone!
     
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  6. TheBigShort

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    The Salisbury Journal Twitter feed is providing a great source of information.

    http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/n...ather_and_travel_updates__pictures_and_video/

    Lots of tweets advising public of weather conditions, traffic updates, road closures etc from 02 Mar to 04 March.
    To my mind, the part of their story which says they couldn't travel to Stonehenge because of snow is now plausible.

    So despite the media hyperbole of the incredulity of their story, which I admit seemed ridiculous to me, a little bit of scrutiny that perception can change pretty quickly.
    However, it doesn't suit some that what they are being told by government and media could be questionable.
     
  7. Duke of Marmalade

    Duke of Marmalade Frequent Poster

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    Seems to me Petrov and Bosh are guilty as sin. There is a Worldly Wise constituency in these parts which shrugs this off with a “so what, one country is as bad as the other in these matters”.
    Despite my six county upbringing I seem to have had a W/W bypass. I naively believed that ex judicial killings are non existent in Western democracies, but it seems we are just as bad as Russia.
     
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  8. Sunny

    Sunny Frequent Poster

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    Indeed it is as per the below from Stonehenge that they couldn't apparently visit because of the snow: Also confirmation that the buses were running to Stonehenge from outside the station.

    10:06am

    We're looking forward to giving all our visitors a warm welcome to Stonehenge today. We're open until 5pm with last tickets at 3pm.

    — Stonehenge (@EH_Stonehenge) March 4, 2018
     
  9. Delboy

    Delboy Frequent Poster

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    I'm starting to worry about you now
     
  10. TheBigShort

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    Well done, you have figured out there was snow.
    The 04 March was the day of the attack and the day they flew out of London -
    03 March was the day they apparently tried to visit Stonehenge, traveling to Salisbury but unable to go to Stonehenge. You should read the tweets that day.
     
  11. TheBigShort

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    Why so? Im not saying that they are innocent or not involved. Im merely pointing out that their version of events, of not being able to travel on 03March stands up.

    Of course, the GRU being the GRU, would send it agents to carry out an assassination in Salisbury, using public transport, during one of the worst weather periods of the year.

    As much as the suspects story is odd, the actual events and the manner in which they apparently occurred is even more far-fetched in my opinion.
     
  12. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    It looks like the Dutch and the Swiss are in on the conspiracy with the Brits

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...over-alleged-novichok-laboratory-hacking-plot

    "
    The Dutch government expelled two alleged Russian spies this year after they were accused of planning to hack into a Swiss chemicals laboratory where novichok nerve agent samples from the Salisbury attack were analysed, it has emerged.
    "
    "
    The Spiez laboratory, near Berne, subsequently confirmed a British claim that the Skripals had been victims of the military-grade nerve agent novichok. The laboratory has also been investigating poison gas attacks by the Syrian regime backed by the Kremlin.
    "

    "
    In an interview with the Russian TV channel RT, two men identified as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, who have been accused by the UK government of poisoning the Skripals, admitted they had visited Switzerland on a number of occasions.
    Petrov, who claims to be in the fitness and nutrition business, but is accused with Boshirov of being a member of the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency, said: “If memory serves me well, we had just a couple of trips to Switzerland. We spent some time during the new year holidays there. Our trips are not always business-related. We went to Switzerland on holiday. We did have some business trips there as well, but I can’t really remember when it was.”
    "

    So, these two religious tourists just happened to be holidaying in Switzerland too. They have some luck!!!

    If it walks like a duck....
     
  13. TheBigShort

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    That would be 4 Russian diplomats expelled then, by the Netherlands?

    Your two, and these two who were expelled in 'solidarity with UK'

    https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/...sian-diplomats-over-british-nerve-gas-attack/

    Although if it were 4, I'm sure somewhere in the reporting it would say something like "that 4 Russian diplomats have now been expelled by the Dutch since the Salisbury attack". But it doesn't. Its just two. Is it the same two?
    Ireland expelled one Russian for eh...for basically....eh, for what exactly? I cant remember.

    Can you let me know if the report you linked refers to the same two Russian diplomats expelled from Netherlands on March 26/27 or does it relate to additional diplomats?
     
  14. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    It doesn't matter if they were the same two or not. The Dutch expelled two alleged Russian spies this year after they were accused of planning to hack into a Swiss chemicals laboratory where novichok nerve agent samples from the Salisbury attack were analysed. Do you honestly believe your beloved Russia didn't do this?
     
  15. TheBigShort

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    That's a bummer alright. Two suspects announce in interview that they have travelled to Switzerland and lo and behold, "it emerges" that 2 Russian diplomats were expelled from the Netherlands!!
    But it was a Swiss factory in the Netherlands!!!

    Seriously, this type of reporting is embarrassing.
     
  16. TheBigShort

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    Didn't do what?
     
  17. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

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    Your whole theory is based on what these two suspects said about travelling to Switzerland!!!
     
  18. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    Do you honestly believe your beloved Russia wasn't behind the Salisbury attacks?
     
  19. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    I didn't put forward any theory.

    As well as being devout tourists, one of them, Petrov also runs what must be a very lucrative fitness and nutrition business because he went to Switzerland for both holidays and business. Indeed he must be some globe trotter as he claims to have travelled to Switzerland for "some business trips there as well, but I can’t really remember when it was.”
     
  20. TheBigShort

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    The one about "walking like a duck"? Have you not set that as your bar for presuming guilt?

    Wow! That is totally damning.

    A few points.

    First, it is not my beloved Russia, I have no affiliation with that country.
    Second, I do not know who was behind the attacks in Salisbury.
    Third, I am sceptical of the claims being made by the UK simply because of the manner this saga is being played out in the media and UK government.


    So, I am asking you, how many Russian diplomats have the Netherlands expelled since the Salisbury attack?

    I have it at two. They were expelled by the Netherlands ‘in solidarity with UK’ back in Mar 26/27 2018.


    Your report, that walks like a duck apparently states, “The Dutch government expelled two alleged Russian spies this year…. it has emerged”. No date provided as to when they were expelled but if the newspapers you read is in the business of providing current news, then when they say “it has emerged” then they must mean an additional two diplomats were expelled as was reported publicly in Mar 26/27?


    Here is what Dutch news is saying today, it is broadly similar but with some notable exceptions

    European intelligence services, including the Dutch military intelligence and security service MIVD, detained two Russian spies

    The incident in The Hague was not made public at the time. However, prime minister Mark Rutte said on March 26 in a reaction to the Salisbury attack, that the government had decided to expell ‘two Russian intelligence agents working at the Russian embassy’.

    This is interesting, because again the time of this ‘incident’ is again, not revealed.
     
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