Ulster Ulster tracker appeal - how long does it take?

That's very interesting @Madra have you made a decision yet?

Without being crude it's like UB threw numbers up in the air. I have asked on numerous occasions for information on how they arrived at their figures. Simply because I want to have them crosschecked. I have had an accountant look at the figures and they disagree on a number of figures in the historical accounts. UB have NEVER responded with the calculation methods to me or anybody else that I'm aware of.

I am going to accept. As regards the numbers game

Mortub2005 said:

Their reason to me was that there was an overpayment made in error when redressing me and they are not going to look to reclaim that amount??? Not sure how they could have made a big mistake like that when doing their calculations.

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This could be their MO. Offer a bit more than due and then use that as a padded shield when the BDO start prodding them.

Madra said:

This could be their MO. Offer a bit more than due and then use that as a padded shield when the BDO start prodding them.

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Definitely not in my case. They couldn't have made a lower compensation amount as they deemed my compensation was actually under the minimum award of €1,500; they increased the award to meet the minimum requirement.

It's neverending!

I submitted my appeal the week before last and got a letter today from BDO saying: 'If we have not replied within 20 business days with the Bank's response we will send you a further update at that point.'

So they're not saying the bank has 20 days in which to reply & they'll forward it to me at that point....

Is this the wording other people have received? I get the feeling I'm heading into another endless loop like the interminable '60 day updates' which went on for years in my case and only came to an end when I started copying the Finance Committee on my correspondence!

Yes @BlueSky that's how it works. It's very frustrating.

To give you an idea I started out last March 2018. It took a year for UB to come up with a better offer. Others here had a bit speedier conclusions, I would advise that you start getting relevant documents to support your claim as they will request these every 20 days as well. Ironically I wrote to UB prior to the appeal requesting they up the offer to the proper redress as I saw it and that was the final outcome after 12 months of going through the appeal process so they basically just stalled for year.

@BlueSky yes - and on the 20 day letters, the date of the letter is day 0 and BDO have 5 days upon receiving the document to process, though with mine to be fair they have been out as soon as they have gotten them, but I've been on them on the dates the bank should be submitting. BDO estimated a finish of the end of May for mine including an Oral hearing at the start of March, so we'll see. I submitted mine in early December and we have completed the initital submission and response plus two rounds of paperwork - I have requested the oral hearing now instead of further paper work but we'll see what happens.

Thanks all for your replies. You'd be tempted to think that they were almost enjoying dragging this out wouldn't you?

Shouldn't it really work like:
We submit appeal
1 week later BDO acknowledges appeal & forwards to Bank
Bank replies within 20 days
And if they don't, then the appeals committee meets to give a judgement, in absence of Bank's response.

Why give the Banks a 20 deadline if there's no incentive for them to stick to it?

@Madra thanks for suggestion regarding documentation: I sent three files in with my appeal to back everything up, after reading here that the appeals committee has no access to our files.

Won't it be a cause for celebration when we are all done and finished and this thread can quietly slip away!!

It's not just the bank that's dragging things on though. Hands up, I have to admit that I delayed things myself last Autumn due to my assumption that they had the full file. BDO are taking a full week to turn around submissions at either end as well. I'm not criticising their need to copy/file submissions, it's simply that we need to temper our expectations.

The tit-for-tat legalistic responses from the Bank show that they have the benefit of significant legal advice - which of course they do as they have a large amount of legal professionals on their payroll. The system is stacked against appellants. The only way to stop the to and fro is to call a halt to the Panel and request that they review your appeal. Otherwise you'll be caught in a neverending cycle. But do make the point that the Appeals Panel are the ones with the legal and financial expertise, you are relying on them to hear your appeal using their knowledge. Make the point that the bank have the odds stacked in their favour.

@SaySomething I completely agree and have made this point in last two submissions that it's a David and Goliath type battle in terms of resources - I made the point to get the submissions back to them both times also within a few days (and I was lucky I had all relevant info to hand and could do this) -in that I am doing this on top of all else while they have huge resources and often can't make a deadline on time. They are also looking at lots of cases which gives them good perspective I presume, while when only looking at your own it could make a difference on how you present it.
Will be interesting to see panel's response to my asking for hearing after this round of paper work saying that the bank has the resources to continue going in circles - hopefully will know next week!

3 weeks on from my submission I got a letter yesterday saying that the panel had received it and were considering it and be back to me in due course. Usual lip service about wanting to deal with it promptly but they didn't set a date or give me an expectation as to when they would get back to me. This is so frustrating as it's not that I'm waiting for them to give me a decision, I'm waiting for them to set a date for an oral hearing!

Just as I thought we’d reached a conclusion on disclosure/submissions; 2 months after they apparently handed over the full file, the bank discovered more information they’d neglected to give the panel. So I had to make another submission on what arrived. I dropped everything, took time off work to turn it around quickly, and then hand-delivered it to BDO in an attempt to speed the process up. The clock started yet again.

I can’t even be confident that this is the end and the bank won’t “discover” more information....that I already told them was missing 2 months ago.

It’s not minor information either; it was transcripts of my phone calls to the Arrears Support Unit.

Meanwhile, mine has been a bit more straight forward, panel spent two weeks considering the last submission by me in response to one by the bank as they felt it was quite technical. They’ve set the date for the oral hearing in three weeks, I would hope then there would be a decision by the end of May/early June - all going well, will be a six monthish process bearing in mind Christmas took two weeks out of that

Mid Dec 2018 - Compensation pack submitted
Early Jan 2019 - Bank written to in response
End Jan 2019 - Bank responded, sent to me for rebuttal
Early Feb 2019 - Rebuttal by me, panel considered
End Feb 2019 - Panel requested further info from bank
End March - Bank submitted to panel, panel sent to me for rebuttal
Early April - I submitted rebuttal to March submission by Bank
Mid April - Panel happy with paperwork, oral hearing date set for early May.

We finally have a date for the Oral Hearing in about 6 weeks time.

Just an update on appeal here - had Oral hearing today with the Upper Panel - I was the only witness called for mine - the bank can also be called but they were not there in this case.
The panel consisted of an Accountant, Lawyer and Customer Advocate plus a note taker.

They were very nice - they gave me the opportunity to start and to tell my story before asking questions leading on from that - they had laptops with them as these had all of the notes on them as they are a paperless office which they explained so as not to be intimidating but I didn't notice them refer to them and any stage and they listened engagingly before asking questions. In asking their questions it was clear that they had been through the documents provided thoroughly. They asked me what I would like to be done and what I would be happy with as well as exploring different avenues as such. There was no indication of a solution as it were but just looking at different options as they felt mine was a more difficult case to resolve. They made sure I was comfortable talking to them at all times and were very personable.

I think it was definitely a worth while process.

They have to decide now whether to uphold, partially uphold or reject the claim. They can also make recommendations to the bank and/or have to decide a quantitative piece (further compensation) either of which may need some further contribution from myself or the bank. They hoped to be back next week with some further information in this regard as they couldn't provide a timeline today, which was fair enough as they need to discuss the hearing today.

We had our Oral Hearing recently.

Unfortunately our experience was not as positive as @notabene

We feel that our issues were not taken seriously. I'm not confident at all that we will be able to avoid referring to the FSPO.

@SaySomething sorry to hear that :-( Do you know when you'll hear back? What an exhausting prospect to think that this might drag on yet further...
@notabene have you heard back yet?

@BlueSky it’s still unclear. I’m hopeful we’ll be completed by the end of August which would make it 14 months in total since we started the appeals process. However, we entered negotiations with the bank before this. That would make it 20 months since redress and compensation.

BlueSky said:

@SaySomething sorry to hear that :-( Do you know when you'll hear back? What an exhausting prospect to think that this might drag on yet further...
@notabene have you heard back yet?

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Latest response from the bank is due to the panel tomorrow so no news just yet, and don't know will more info be required after i reply to that submission but similarly to @SaySomething hoping it will be wrapped up by the end of August, if not before

All the best with your appeals hopefully will come to an end soon.