Ulster mortgage rate sheet incorrect

[PeterPedant]

Hello - just to make people aware. I recently received the rate sheet with 30+ rate options. There were 10+ errors in it e.g. same rate quoted with different repayments amounts; one lower rate with a higher repayment amount than another higher rate etc. I called them and they said they were aware of the errors and that many people had received incorrect information. A dreadful, dreadful bank.

Check the repayment amounts carefully on the rate sheets. It is likely that they are wrong.

So that's what I expect from a bank - factual information. Not apology after apology.

 

[newirishman]

Hello - just to make people aware. I recently received the rate sheet with 30+ rate options. There were 10+ errors in it e.g. same rate quoted with different repayments amounts; one lower rate with a higher repayment amount than another higher rate etc. I called them and they said they were aware of the errors and that many people had received incorrect information. A dreadful, dreadful bank.

Check the repayment amounts carefully on the rate sheets. It is likely that they are wrong.

So that's what I expect from a bank - factual information. Not apology after apology.

I am looking at the rate sheet right now again, and I have previously checked a few of the rates in terms of correctness. Having double checked 35 rates (I am missing one page as it is the one with the rate I selected and sent back), none of them is incorrect.

Also, a google search to the topic doesn't reveal anything.

Could you post a copy of that rate sheet that is wrong?

 

[PeterPedant]

I am looking at the rate sheet right now again, and I have previously checked a few of the rates in terms of correctness. Having double checked 35 rates (I am missing one page as it is the one with the rate I selected and sent back), none of them is incorrect.

Also, a google search to the topic doesn't reveal anything.

Could you post a copy of that rate sheet that is wrong?

I am pleased that your rate sheet appears to be correct but if you want to post a copy of it, I'll double-check it for you. I've had mine confirmed as incorrect by the bank so it would do no harm to have yours checked by someone. Not sure if I'll have time today but perhaps someone else here could look at it for you if you post it later.

 

[newirishman]

I am pleased that your rate sheet appears to be correct but if you want to post a copy of it, I'll double-check it for you. I've had mine confirmed as incorrect by the bank so it would do no harm to have yours checked by someone. Not sure if I'll have time today but perhaps someone else here could look at it for you if you post it later.

I know that my rate sheet is correct, there is no real need to have it checked by someone. I do understand how mortgage repayment calculations work.

I'd really like to see one of the examples from your side where you claim they are incorrect.

 

[PeterPedant]

I know that my rate sheet is correct, there is no real need to have it checked by someone. I do understand how mortgage repayment calculations work.

I'd really like to see one of the examples from your side where you claim they are incorrect.

I would really be more comfortable if you shared your sheet with the group; you have me really worried when you say you haven't had it checked by anyone. You can pm it to me, no problem, if that works better.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Hi Peter

You are making a serious and unsubstantiated allegation. If it's true, it would be very interesting.

But I doubt very much that it is true. I suspect that you just don't understand it.

But Ulster Bank is chaotic from time to time, so it could be true.

However, please do prove us wrong and post it. As it's a rate sheet, you are not compromising your privacy.

Brendan

 

[PeterPedant]

Hi Peter

You are making a serious and unsubstantiated allegation. If it's true, it would be very interesting.

But I doubt very much that it is true. I suspect that you just don't understand it.

But Ulster Bank is chaotic from time to time, so it could be true.

However, please do prove us wrong and post it. As it's a rate sheet, you are not compromising your privacy.

Brendan

Hello Brendan

I suspect you don't know what you're talking about considering you haven't seen my rate sheet or weren't party to my telephone conversation with them where they apologised for the errors and told me they are aware of others who received incorrect information or haven't read their letter of apology to me. No, in fact, I know that you don't know what you're talking about.

I am not making allegations. I have stated facts, as acknowledged by Ulster Bank, and warned people to check their rate sheet for errors. I gave examples of errors. People can use that info to check their own.

And I don't appreciate your patronising tone. But that is your wont.

 

[Leo]

I am not making allegations. I have stated facts, as acknowledged by Ulster Bank, and warned people to check their rate sheet for errors.

Without providing actual proof of an error beyond stating they confirmed it to you over the phone, all you have done is made an allegation. If you want to prove it, you need to post a link to confirmation from UB, or post a copy of your own redacted rate sheet along with your calculations demonstrating the errors.

And I don't appreciate your patronising tone.

To state you're really worried that another poster hasn't had their rates independently checked is to suggest they are somehow not capable of doing so themselves. How's that for patronising!

 

[PeterPedant]

Leo, if you think I was really worried about that other poster's rate-sheet after his use of the word "claim", then I'm afraid you were lost in the sarchasm.

And Leo, I don't need to do anything. I did people a favour by creating an account to let them know that Ulster Bank has admitted to making mistakes in their rate sheets. Indeed, I had another call yesterday from Ulster Bank to discuss the matter again (perhaps they read this thread) - once again apologising for the errors, confirming that they have now corrected my rate sheet (but I can't speak for others) and apologising for another factually incorrect statement on the rate sheet concerning how valuations are carried out, and committing to correct it.

Leo - if you don't understand the examples I gave in my first post, send me a PM or email me and I'll explain them to you.

 

[cremeegg]

Any chance we can open a poll to see who readers think is the biggest *%^$£@ on this thread.

It is a pity that what may be an important matter has been obscured by such childishness.

OP I think in fairness you should put up the rate sheet you referred to.

 

[Leo]

Leo, if you think I was really worried about that other poster's rate-sheet after his use of the word "claim", then I'm afraid you were lost in the sarchasm.

Newirishman's use of the word claim was perfectly appropriate. You have made a claim that you were provided with false information, that you have evidence that backs it up, but all you seem to be engaged in since is deferring from providing any evidence of your claim.

And Leo, I don't need to do anything. I did people a favour by creating an account to let them know that Ulster Bank has admitted to making mistakes in their rate sheets.

If you want to make a claim here that a named business are 'likely' providing incorrect information to their customers, then you do need to do something to substantiate that claim. So far all you have provided is hearsay, and when asked to provide the evidence you claim to have, all you do is suggest others are mistaken and ask for them to post their rate sheets.

Leo - if you don't understand the examples I gave in my first post, send me a PM or email me and I'll explain them to you.

You gave no examples in your first post, all you did was make an unsubstantiated claim. If you don't understand the difference between an example and a claim....

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Lads

I think we have all made a big mistake here.

Ulster Bank is a bank, therefore everything it does must be wrong.

PeterPedant is a newly registered, anonymous poster, so he must be right.

We are all wrong. We should not be so pedantic as to require someone to actually back up their claims in the light of such overwhelming evidence.

Brendan

 

[PeterPedant]

Leo - Examples are in the first post. Why don't you ask me a civil, grown-up question about one of those examples if you don't understand what I mean?

Leo - you need to learn what "hearsay" means. I am not providing you with hearsay. I am providing you with information. It is hearsay if you use it.

Leo - do not falsely claim that "all" I "do is suggest others are mistaken" when not once, let alone "all", have I done so.

Leo it is very important to note that my initial post (which was in another thread originally before being elevated to these heady heights) was in response to that other poster's glowing review of Ulster Bank. It is no secret that Ulster Bank has made numerous errors in recent years, and has paid out thousands in compensation to its customers (myself included) so it really was too much to take to see someone coming onto the other thread to wax lyrical about Ulster Bank's brilliant rate sheet when the facts of the matter are that it is acknowledged by Ulster Bank that it has made numerous errors in the rate sheets. But don't let Ulster Bank's failings deflect from your real agenda here, Leo or should I say, Didymus...

And Leo - if you are so worried, why don't you call Ulster Bank and ask them if this is a real issue or did PeterPedant, the rapscallion, make it all up. You can then come back on here and share your findings with the old boys' club.

Now, you strike me as the kind of person who won't be happy until you have the last word so knock yourself out.

For any civil beings out there, I hope the info was of help. Check the rates vs. repayments very carefully before agreeing. Mistakes have been made. The rate sheet might not be very easy to navigate for some people and the errors (the repayment amounts do not correspond correctly to the interest rates in many of the table's cells) might not be obvious at first glance. But just compare a number of them to see if they make sense. On mine there were multiple errors.

Brendan - are most posters here not anonymous or did I miss the coming out party? The rest of your post is just childish. But I have no doubt that it tickled you.

 

[Leo]

Leo - Examples are in the first post. Why don't you ask me a civil, grown-up question about one of those examples if you don't understand what I mean?

Let's make this as simple as possible so. You state they have made 10+ errors in the rate sheet they provided you with. For you to provide an example, you would need to quote the figures they have provided you with along with your calculations that show their figures to be incorrect. Stating over and over that they have made a mistake is not providing us with examples, it's just restating your claim. A claim is not an example.

Leo - you need to learn what "hearsay" means. I am not providing you with hearsay. I am providing you with information. It is hearsay if you use it.

I'm afraid that all you have provided to date is hearsay. Posting your version of what someone told you a phone call that no one else here can corroborate is precisely hearsay.

And Leo - if you are so worried, why don't you call Ulster Bank and ask them if this is a real issue or did PeterPedant, the rapscallion, make it all up. You can then come back on here and share your findings with the old boys' club.

I don't need to call them, I have no issues with the rate sheet they sent me. You claim to have evidence they provided you with false information, but refuse to share that for some reason. Posting that evidence would clear up perfectly whether they have made a mistake or not, and if they have, we can raise further awareness if the issue. In the past, similar claims that have been proven here have received the attention of the national press. So if you are really interested in raising awareness of a potential issue, post your proof.

Now, you strike me as the kind of person who won't be happy until you have the last word so knock yourself out.

Post your evidence, I'll be more than happy not to say another word, but I might hit the 'Like' button on your post if that's OK?

 

[Dauhee]

For any civil beings out there, I hope the info was of help. Check the rates vs. repayments very carefully before agreeing.

It would be of help Peter if you could say what the specific errors are?

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I have read back on his first post.

Even if he is correct, and I have no idea whether he is or not, it actually doesn't amount to much.

UB quotes you a rate. That is what is important.

If the rate sheet has got the repayment wrong, it doesn't affect anything.

It would be much more serious if they applied the correct rate to your mortgage but got the calculations wrong.

Brendan

 

[newirishman]

I've attached a couple of pages from that rate sheet I've received few weeks ago.
Might be of interest to some in any case to see what Ulsterbank sends out.
Mortgage outstanding is around 343k euro, 16 years or so left.
There's a lot of options, but I found it very easy to understand.

 

[PeterPedant]

On mine (which is laid out in the same order, same rates), I don't see any errors on P.2.

On P.3, at the bottom of the page, I have:

3.19% €1458.20
3.30% €1,409.17

Obviously 3.30% should be higher than 3.19%

On P.4:

3.60% is offered three times (and should obviously all be the same repayment amounts):

1st: €1,426.46
2nd: €1,498.42
3rd: €1,442.29

On P.4

3.35% is offered twice and again has different repayment amounts:

1st: €1,474.22
2nd: €1,537.60

And obviously these figures don't make sense compared to the 3.6% amounts either

On P.4

3.7% is offered €1,474.22 and is lower than the 3.6% €1,498.29 directly above it
3.4% is offered €1,466.20 and is higher than (another ) 3.6% €1,442.29 directly below it.


On P.5

3.7% is offered and it is lower than the same 3.7% repayment on P.4 (1458 vs. 1474)
3.00% is offered at €1,490.33 and 4.30% is offered at the exact same amount €1,490.33

(for comparison, 2.99% is offered elsewhere and is €1,378.04)

There are more: 3.2% on P.5 has higher repayments than 3.30% and 3.70% etc. etc. It goes on and on.

So, littered with errors, admitted by Ulster Bank and I was told that other customers have been affected too and that they are trying to correct the errors.

It would be extremely inconvenient to pick a rate, have it applied to your account, wait a month or two to see it kick in and then realise that the repayment amount claimed by Ulster Bank in its rate sheet was incorrect so you have to contact them and go through the rigmarole of arguing with them to eventually change the rate again to one with a (correct) repayment that suits you. Maybe six months from start to finish, you are on a rate and repayment that you want.

I once made a mortgage repayment by debit card using the reference number they gave me to do so. Then they couldn't find the payment. They absolutely bombarded my (then pregnant) wife and me with phone calls, demanding payment. Every phone call I told them that it was paid. Then they said okay, we'll find it. The calls kept coming. They explained that they couldn't get the other division in the bank to stop the calls - sorry about that. The calls kept coming. It was excruciating. Eventually, I got a letter apologising for the inconvenience, explaining they had found the payment and offering me €800 compensation.

I could go on...

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Hi Peter

Thanks for explaining the issue and giving examples.

The key thing in making your choice is to choose the most suitable rate. Ignore the repayments. They have messed up the calculations for this rate sheet.

But I would guess that the repayments on the mortgage system are calculated correctly. However, it's probably worth checking.

Brendan

 

[newirishman]

On mine (which is laid out in the same order, same rates), I don't see any errors on P.2.

On P.3, at the bottom of the page, I have:

3.19% €1458.20
3.30% €1,409.17

Obviously 3.30% should be higher than 3.19%

On P.4:

3.60% is offered three times (and should obviously all be the same repayment amounts):

1st: €1,426.46
2nd: €1,498.42
3rd: €1,442.29

On P.4

3.35% is offered twice and again has different repayment amounts:

1st: €1,474.22
2nd: €1,537.60

And obviously these figures don't make sense compared to the 3.6% amounts either

On P.4

3.7% is offered €1,474.22 and is lower than the 3.6% €1,498.29 directly above it
3.4% is offered €1,466.20 and is higher than (another ) 3.6% €1,442.29 directly below it.


On P.5

3.7% is offered and it is lower than the same 3.7% repayment on P.4 (1458 vs. 1474)
3.00% is offered at €1,490.33 and 4.30% is offered at the exact same amount €1,490.33

(for comparison, 2.99% is offered elsewhere and is €1,378.04)

There are more: 3.2% on P.5 has higher repayments than 3.30% and 3.70% etc. etc. It goes on and on.

So, littered with errors, admitted by Ulster Bank and I was told that other customers have been affected too and that they are trying to correct the errors.

It would be extremely inconvenient to pick a rate, have it applied to your account, wait a month or two to see it kick in and then realise that the repayment amount claimed by Ulster Bank in its rate sheet was incorrect so you have to contact them and go through the rigmarole of arguing with them to eventually change the rate again to one with a (correct) repayment that suits you. Maybe six months from start to finish, you are on a rate and repayment that you want.

I once made a mortgage repayment by debit card using the reference number they gave me to do so. Then they couldn't find the payment. They absolutely bombarded my (then pregnant) wife and me with phone calls, demanding payment. Every phone call I told them that it was paid. Then they said okay, we'll find it. The calls kept coming. They explained that they couldn't get the other division in the bank to stop the calls - sorry about that. The calls kept coming. It was excruciating. Eventually, I got a letter apologising for the inconvenience, explaining they had found the payment and offering me €800 compensation.

I could go on...

Can you post a picture of one of the pages (p 4 looks like a good candidate)? This is so shockingly wrong that I probably won't even believe it when I see it with my own eyes!