Ulster Bank want to make changes to mortgage

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Mrs Vimes

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Got a letter from Ulster Bank last month detailing changes to their mortgage system, mostly just changing account numbers and enabling changes to date of repayment.

They say that my tracker rate will not be affected but
"The only thing that will change is the date any European Central Bank (ECB) rate changes are applied to your account. These rate changes are currently applied within 10 days of the effective date of an ECB announcement. Once the system changes are implemented, the rate change will be applied on the first of the following month."
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I know that the only way is up for the ECB rate, but I have a long time to go on the mortgage and there could be many fluctuations in the future so I wrote to them and informed them that I
do not consent to any changes.

The letter did not allow for any possibility of refusal which I thought extremely presumptuous of them. We've had a long history of Ulster Bank messing up so I'm very uneasy that they seem to think that they can make any changes without even asking for consent.

Did anyone else respond to the letter?
 
To be honest, it's not a battle I would worry about too much.

Their systems are terrible. Any improvements should be welcomed. It seems to me to be far more efficient to have rate increases on the 1st of a month, rather than mid month.

And as you have pointed out, you will benefit from this change.

Brendan
 
they are making improvements in their systems and moving old mortgages to the newer mortgage system.
the older mortgage system will then be closed, so it wont be operational, so all of the mortgages will have to be moved, so not sure how they can keep you on the older system.
 
There is 1 interesting clause in the new T&C that they have sent out to mortgage holders. Don't have the document in my hand right now so can't quote directly. It runs along the lines of:

Ulster Bank DAC shall not be held liable for any errors in documentation or errors in calculations made on your mortgage.

In the context of the Tracker Mortgage Investigation I can't see how that is legal?
 
They have an ulterior motive of why they're doing this.. I know the reason why but can't tell you. Do not consent under any circumstances....
 
Raging Bull said:
They have an ulterior motive of why they're doing this.. I know the reason why but can't tell you. Do not consent under any circumstances....
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Such conspiracy theories without any substance have no place on askaboutmoney.

If you see some disadvantage to any customer in these plans, let us know.

If there is some giant conspiracy, then inform the Central Bank.

Brendan
 
Brendan it's no conspiracy theory.. The Central Bank is aware of the issue.. I would not have being overly concerned of the change but the fact that they want to change the account number is alarming... consumer rights on older contracts have actually far superior rights than newer ones.. That's their angle
 
the account number is changing as the mortgages are moving from one mortgage system to a newer mortgage system and the account number setup is different.
 
That's what your being peddled.. They will say a few years down the road it's a new contract and being new it's subject to newer regulations
 
afraid not.
they already did this change for what were called the Offset mortgages in 2005.
and then the old First Active Mortgages in 2012.
its not a new contract, it a simplification of systems, and cost savings.
 
OK so they spend all the money on new systems copying across tons of data but need to change the one thing that can potentially be used to undermine your rights down the line.. Seem to remember PTSB having a problem with systems and fixed rates and trackers.. Whose interest was being looked after there?
 
Different systems have different algorithms for creating account numbers. I've been through the exact same reason. There's no great conspiracy behind this. It's simple systems reasons.

I was working in a bank formed by the merger of several banks at a point where some systems had been consolidated, and we ran into issues where the format of the current account number on the new platform was the same as the mortgage account number on one of the legacy systems, and every so often there would be issues because the same account number was created on both. The new mortgage system had a different account number algorithm, and so all accounts received a new account number when they were ported.
 
Right I'm home and have the new booklet to hand. @Brendan Burgess some of these are directly relevant to tracker mortgage customers so let me know if you want me to repost/post this elsewhere.

Noting that previously the interest rate was altered within 10 days of the tracker rate being altered. Now they will apply from the first of the following calendar month. Interest is calculated on the Mortgage Balance on a daily basis. This will give Ulster Bank further days at the previous interest rate before applying a tracker. On average I think as much as 15 days per month on all tracker mortgages. Not an issue at the moment due to low interest rates but advantageous when rates are at their peak. Swings and roundabouts.

Part A
16 Interest Rate...

(b) (ii) The Borrower on the expiry of the Fixed Rate Period may, by prior notice in writing to the Lender, opt to choose a further fixed rate of interest for a certain period if such an option is made available by the Lender and on terms and conditions as may be specified by the Lender. Where such an option is not made available by the Lender or, if available, where the Borrower fails to exercise the option, the interest rate applicable will be the standard variable rate of interest which may be increased or decreased by the Lender at any time, and in this respect, the decision of the Lender will be final and conclusively binding on the Borrower;​

Note: Previously the prevailing home loan mortgage rate as per the letter of offer applied, no?

Part B
25 No Liability for Loss
The Lender will not be liable to the Borrower for any loss of any description the Borrower may suffer if the Lender fails to perform any of its obligations under these Terms and Conditions as a direct or indirect result of anything outside of the Lender's reasonable control. This includes but is not limited to industrial dispute, failure or fluctuation of power or telecommunications supplies or any equipment or error in any software, error or lack of clarity in the Borrower's instructions, failure or delay in the supply of services to us by a third party. The Lender will not under any circumstances whatsoever by liable for any indirect losses or losses of profit.​

Note: The comment on equipment or error of software.

37 Mistakes and Miscalculations
(a) The Lender's Security shall not be prejudicially affected by any error or omission contained in any statement or information made or supplied by the Lender to the Borrower during the subsistencer of the Mortgage or after its discharge.
(b) The execution and delivery by the Lender of a statutory receipt or instrument of discharge in respect of the Mortgage shall not discharge the Borrower from personal liability if it is subsequently found that on redemption the amount of the Mortgage Balance was under calculated or understated by mistake.​

In the letter that we received we were informed that when the new mortgage account number was issued to us in June, that we would receive a revised mortgage statement reflecting our new account number. It will apparently be clearer and easier to read. Mortgage statements will now be issued on the anniversary of the date they were withdrawn, not January annually from this point forward.

As it happens my mortgage was drawn in June. I will receive a new statement in June and then none for a further year. This gives rise to concerns that I won't receive redress on the tracker mortgage issue until next June. I had (cynically) expected it to happen in December/January before the annual statements were issued.
 
"The only thing that will change is the date any European Central Bank (ECB) rate changes are applied to your account. These rate changes are currently applied within 10 days of the effective date of an ECB announcement. Once the system changes are implemented, the rate change will be applied on the first of the following month."

If the ECB rate rises on 1 August, under the current system, the increase will take effect on 11 August. Under the new system, it will not be until 1 September. So you gain from this rule.

If the ECB rate rises on 30 Auguste, under the current system the increase will take effect "within 10 days" so it could be still the 1 September. So you don't lose.

Because the ECB rate is currently 0%, this will, on balance, benefit tracker customers.

Brendan
 
So what should UB Customers do ?
The Bank are not giving an option ?
Is it worth asking a Financial Expert to review and compare the old and new conditions.
 
These changes do not disadvantage anyone.

But you are welcome to spend your money on a "Financial Expert" if you wish.

Brendan
 
Dragging this up again.....

I never received a response to my letter in 2017 and let it slide but recently resent the letter which was again ignored so I raised a formal complaint.

UB decided I was complaining about the transfer to AIB and rejected the complaint on that basis.

I need to be clearer with my second complaint:

If they are allowed to change the contract as to how long they have to pass on changes to ECB, what's to stop them deciding to change it to have up to a year (or a decade) to pass on changes? That would negate the benefit of having a tracker in the first place.

They could still pass on increases immediately but take their time on decreases. As I said in 2017, I have a long way to go and expect ups and downs.
 
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