trying to get out from under Vulture

You currently owe them €540k on a property worth between €600k and €750k
We can't get finance for that debt even though as a percentage of the value of our family home it would be just 60%
So if your house is worth €700k, they are offering to settle the total debt for €420k.

That is a write off of €120k - not bad.

You have an income of €90,000 so you need 4.6 times your income.

I don't think you have a hope in hell of getting this.

So
1) Clear the arrears on your home loan immediately for the reasons I have already set out.
2) Let them lodge the judgement against your home - there isn't much you can do about it.

If I recall correctly, the interest on the judgement mortgage will be at a very low rate, so you don't really need to worry about it.

In theory they could seek an order for repossession, but it's very unlikely.

Brendan
 
Have you a family member who could lend you €100k?

I suspect that the fund would take the €100k in settlement of the €200k unsecured loan.

That would leave you with a mortgage of €340k.

After a few years, your credit record will repair, and you should be able to switch to another lender.

Brendan
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
Yes. I want to extract myself from this position to ensure that I am left in the best position financially.
I thought that this forum was where I would get advice. I don't need to be judged, I have done that myself for the last 10 years.

They are offering an amount to fully buy out our total debt with them - This includes PPR and residual debt.
We can't get finance for that debt even though as a percentage of the value of our family home it would be just 60% and our current incomes can support it.
They are not forcing us to refinance with another provider another provider would have far cheaper rates.

Ok let's try this a different way. What 'deal' would you be happy with? Compared to what is currently on offer?

And I still don't understand what is actually physically being offered other than apparently when you sign the deal you will owe 60% of the value of your home, a value that we are not even given as you've stated 600K to 750K.

Lastly, you have a gripe that the problem with this deal as that despite a good LTV you won't be able to switch lenders. I think.

If you think you'd get a better deal, which I doubt, try poster Jim Stafford, he's excellent in this area but he'll cost you.
 

endofourtether

Registered User
Ok let's try this a different way. What 'deal' would you be happy with? Compared to what is currently on offer?

And I still don't understand what is actually physically being offered other than apparently when you sign the deal you will owe 60% of the value of your home, a value that we are not even given as you've stated 600K to 750K.

Lastly, you have a gripe that the problem with this deal as that despite a good LTV you won't be able to switch lenders. I think.

If you think you'd get a better deal, which I doubt, try poster Jim Stafford, he's excellent in this area but he'll cost you.
I would like to be able to deal with both the residual loan and the Family home loan separately, I feel that I am being forced to do them together.
What is being offered is a substantial write down if we do all of the loans in one refinance. we can't get this financed.
I am wondering if there is any approach that we should try to take in order to get the VF do it in a piecemeal manner.
 

RedOnion

Frequent Poster
And I still don't understand what is actually physically being offered other than apparently when you sign the deal you will owe 60% of the value of your home, a value that we are not even given as you've stated 600K to 750K.
I think what the OP is saying is the fund will do a debt write off, but only if the balance is repaid (i.e. he needs to be able to refinance to get the deal).
Or at least that's what I think. There's too much to read through.
 

endofourtether

Registered User
I think what the OP is saying is the fund will do a debt write off, but only if the balance is repaid (i.e. he needs to be able to refinance to get the deal).
Or at least that's what I think. There's too much to read through.
Nail on the head - apologies, I don't want to give too much detail.
Is there a strategy that will get them to deal with these two separate loans, one secured one not, as two separate loans?
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
I would like to be able to deal with both the residual loan and the Family home loan separately, I feel that I am being forced to do them together.
What is being offered is a substantial write down if we do all of the loans in one refinance. we can't get this financed.
I am wondering if there is any approach that we should try to take in order to get the VF do it in a piecemeal manner.

I will try again.

a) The VF will write down around 100K of debt if you agree to a refinance, in simple language a new mortgage with them that is the BTL debt minus write down plus current mortgage.

Is that correct?

b) And if you don't do that is this correct:

The VF will put a judgement mortgage of the entire BTL loan on your home.
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
I think what the OP is saying is the fund will do a debt write off, but only if the balance is repaid (i.e. he needs to be able to refinance to get the deal).
Or at least that's what I think. There's too much to read through.
How can he refinance from anywhere else when he's credit rating is shot? I think he means refinance with the VF.
 

RedOnion

Frequent Poster
How can he refinance from anywhere else when he's credit rating is shot? I think he means refinance with the VF.
Sure he'd be mad not to if that was on offer.

apologies, I don't want to give too much detail.
You have to give enough info, in a clearl manner, if you want help. I've got confused reading your posts.

I am wondering if there is any approach that we should try to take in order to get the VF do it in a piecemeal manner.
At the moment VF hold all the cards (or at least your title deeds). Why would they give that up and hand you deeds without a charge, so they could at best hope for a judgement mortgage on the unsecured debt?
 

noproblem

Frequent Poster
Unless you can get the money from someone you're simply banjaxed. In the same position would you gamble on someone similar? I wouldn't. Sorry but it's business.
 

endofourtether

Registered User
I will try again.

a) The VF will write down around 100K of debt if you agree to a refinance, in simple language a new mortgage with them that is the BTL debt minus write down plus current mortgage.

Is that correct?

b) And if you don't do that is this correct:
The VF will put a judgement mortgage of the entire BTL loan on your home.
A) Correct.
B) Correct


Have you a family member who could lend you €100k?

I suspect that the fund would take the €100k in settlement of the €200k unsecured loan.

That would leave you with a mortgage of €340k.

After a few years, your credit record will repair, and you should be able to switch to another lender.

Brendan
No.
It would leave us with €100k owing to a family member and a €340k mortgage.

How can he refinance from anywhere else when he's credit rating is shot? I think he means refinance with the VF.
We want to be shot of the VF. Rate is 5%.
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
A) Correct.
B) Correct


No.
It would leave us with €100k owing to a family member and a €340k mortgage.


We want to be shot of the VF. Rate is 5%.
Seems to me you will get a debt write down right now of 100K and you should grab it.
Do the refinance with the VF and get your credit rating sorted and you move to a different bank.
I do not believe a broker can get you a mortgage with your bad credit rating

Alternatively

Take a family loan, and the mortgage. And with such a magnificant LTV now as you've only 340K owing on 700K try and move banks. (Obviously you don't tell them you owe another 100K!). You then hopefully get a good interest rate, freeing up more money to pay down the family debt and the mortgage.

That's what I would do.
 
I know you don't want to tell us the full story, but this is getting ridiculous.

You are saying that Bronte is correct, although I am fairly sure that she has misunderstood you.

a) The VF will write down around 100K of debt if you agree to a refinance, in simple language a new mortgage with them that is the BTL debt minus write down plus current mortgage.
You said "correct".

Let's make this absolutely clear.

The Vulture Fund is saying
"If you refinance with us, we will write off €100k"

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

Presumably the Vulture Fund is saying:

"If you pay us €420k now by refinancing with another lender, we will write off the shortfall"

Or are they actually offering you the "Bronte Deal". Accept €100k of this on your home, and will write off €100k. If so, then grab it.

Brendan
 

endofourtether

Registered User
You want:
  1. A debt-write off
  2. To stay in your PPR
  3. A lower interest rate

You can have any two of these, but not all three.
It seems that we can't even get 2. We are staying in our PPR though.
Seems to me you will get a debt write down right now of 100K and you should grab it.
Do the refinance with the VF and get your credit rating sorted and you move to a different bank.
I do not believe a broker can get you a mortgage with your bad credit rating

Alternatively

Take a family loan, and the mortgage. And with such a magnificant LTV now as you've only 340K owing on 700K try and move banks. (Obviously you don't tell them you owe another 100K!). You then hopefully get a good interest rate, freeing up more money to pay down the family debt and the mortgage.

That's what I would do.
Are you saying that the VF might roll everything together as one loan and write off the residual debt owing on the BTL?
That would be most helpful.

I must say that I love our wealthy and generous families...
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
Are you saying that the VF might roll everything together as one loan and write off the residual debt owing on the BTL?
That would be most helpful.
What would be helpful is if we could understand your posts. At least now we know the 'Bronte deal' is off the table. It's a bit like Brexit this thread.

When did a broker tell you they could get a refinance deal with another bank? Which bank and at what rate of interest?

We have also finally clarified with your sarcasim that you do not have a family member able to loan you anything.
 

endofourtether

Registered User
I know you don't want to tell us the full story, but this is getting ridiculous.

You are saying that Bronte is correct, although I am fairly sure that she has misunderstood you.



You said "correct".

Let's make this absolutely clear.

The Vulture Fund is saying
"If you refinance with us, we will write off €100k"

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

Presumably the Vulture Fund is saying:

"If you pay us €420k now by refinancing with another lender, we will write off the shortfall"

Or are they actually offering you the "Bronte Deal". Accept €100k of this on your home, and will write off €100k. If so, then grab it.

Brendan
Apologies. If we refinance through a third party they will do a write off.

Look, I have been clear, all of my information is there, I just read through my posts, this is ongoing so I am trying to be a little opaque.
Good luck with that.

(By the way, if I were a bank dealing with him I'd be tearing my hair out trying to get rid of him. So far none of us has actually figured out what is going on)
Is this meant to be funny, I'm obviously able to give the bank the full details.
 
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