TRS and CGT on the refund?

Lauren 5

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Well she said that their dealing directly with revenue and we don't need to do anything, so I persume they worked out this and takeing it in to account when working out our figures, I asked is that takeing out my overpayment she said that's what I'll be getting back, what's in my letter
 

AAM_User

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Well she said that their dealing directly with revenue and we don't need to do anything, so I persume they worked out this and takeing it in to account when working out our figures, I asked is that takeing out my overpayment she said that's what I'll be getting back, what's in my letter
All that means is that they're "working with revenue" they could be working with them to come up with a figure we're responsible for, or they're responsible for...
 

dec_hy

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13
I specifically asked the question and was told that any refund due to the revenue would be met by PTSB
 

rameire

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395
the trs implications could be from a few euro up to a couple of thousand per person.
I wouldn't accept what they said on the phone about the trs being met by PTsb, if ththis is true I'd get that in writing.
 

L John

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Are people actually reading the documentation in full??

It states on page 10 'we have been in discussion with the revenue commissioners and any tax issues arising are being addressed directly by us. Accordingly, you do not need to take any action in this regard'
 

AAM_User

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Was on to them and asked & they confirmed that they will be making any payments to the RC. Asked for it in writing.
 

Sophrosyne

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Was on to them and asked & they confirmed that they will be making any payments to the RC. Asked for it in writing.
It would be good if it were true and you are wise to obtain written confirmation.

I still have a suspicion though that PTSB will just make a bulk payment to Revenue on behalf of those concerned but that individual settlements will be reduced by any amounts owed to Revenue.
 

Sarenco

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It would be good if it were true and you are wise to obtain written confirmation.

I still have a suspicion though that PTSB will just make a bulk payment to Revenue on behalf of those concerned but that individual settlements will be reduced by any amounts owed to Revenue.
I would share your suspicion.

Just to further complicate things, would any Revenue settlement discharged by PTSB on behalf of those concerned not itself be treated as a taxable benefit (a gift?) to those individual borrowers if it is not deducted from the compensation payments made by PTSB (which payments may also be taxable IMO)?
 

Sarenco

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There is no taxable gift here and no CGT.

On first principles, there couldn't be.
Fair enough - I'm really not sure how these payments would be treated for tax purposes.

If somebody discharges a liability (such as refunding excess relief payments) that would otherwise fall to me to discharge from my own resources, rather than simply giving me cash, how would you characterise that payment? It's obviously a benefit that accrues to me that is not in the nature of a loan, remuneration or in consideration for the supply of any services or goods by me so if it's not a gift, well, what is it?

Similarly, if I receive an ex gratia payment that is not in settlement of a claim under any specified employment legislation or a personal injury claim or a redress payment that is otherwise tax exempt under any legislative provision, how would you characterise that payment for tax purposes?

I'm not suggesting that I know the answers to these questions but I don't think it's clear-cut that these payments would not have any tax consequences.
 

Gordon Gekko

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Well in the context of a gift, you'd look to the company's shareholder(s).

Who are the State.

There is no gift.
 

Sophrosyne

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I could be wrong, but I cannot see PTSB picking up the tab for excess TRS granted to individual borrowers.

I think that PTSB, following Revenue instructions, will work out the excess TRS in each case and pay over the collective excess to Revenue.

It will then reduce each individual settlement by that individual's excess TRS before payment.

I think that is what PTSB means when it advises "you need not take any action in this regard".
 
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Sarenco

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I could be wrong, but I cannot see PTSB picking up the tab for excess TRS granted to individual borrowers.

I think that PTSB, following Revenue instructions, will work out the excess TRS in each case and pay over the collective excess to Revenue.

It will then reduce each individual settlement by the excess TRS before payment.

I think that is what PTSB means when it advises "you need not take any action in this regard".
I am inclined to agree.

I struggle to believe that PTSB would refund (what turned out to be) excessive TRS payments on behalf of their borrowers without subsequently recouping this from those borrowers - why would they?
 

Gordon Gekko

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Sorry, I don't follow you - could you expand on this somewhat?
For Gift Tax to apply, there needs to be a human being, either directly or indirectly. It couldn't apply to a payment from a plc or a State entity.

It could in theory apply in a scenario where (say) I arrange for my company to pay something to you for no reason.
 

kaza

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175
I am inclined to agree.

I struggle to believe that PTSB would refund (what turned out to be) excessive TRS payments on behalf of their borrowers without subsequently recouping this from those borrowers - why would they?
I received my letter today. Like you I fully expected PTSB to deduct the TRS over-payment from my reimbursement amount. However, based on my calculations, they seem to be reimbursing me the TRS over payment also, which I was really surprised by. Obviously, my calculations might be wrong - and I need to wait for them to send me the detail of my over-payments to confirm this. I plan on ringing in the morning to try and get more information on this.
 

Sarenco

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For Gift Tax to apply, there needs to be a human being, either directly or indirectly. It couldn't apply to a payment from a plc or a State entity.

It could in theory apply in a scenario where (say) I arrange for my company to pay something to you for no reason.
But isn't that exactly the scenario here? PTSB (a plc) would be making a payment to Revenue (effectively, the State) on behalf of a borrower (a human being) for no apparent reason.

PTSB doesn't have any obligation to refund the excess TRS payments to Revenue - it didn't benefit from these payments in the first place. It may well do so for administrative convenience, in agreement with Revenue, but if this isn't subsequently recouped from the relevant borrowers, then a benefit accrues to those borrowers for which no consideration has been paid.
 
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