Key Post Triple Glazing.

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sueellen

Guest
I said I'd post back if I heard of any company other than Rationel that supply triple glazed windows. Marvin Architectural in Kildare supply them. I saw their stand at the Home show in the RDS on tuesday, and the windows are gobsmackingly beautiful. We're getting a quote for their wooden sash windows with aluminium cladding on the outside, but the salesman stressed that they were at the upper end of the window market (we must have looked like we can't afford them :D ). He said that the triple glazed version was about 10% more expensive than the double glazed.

Heinbloed, if you read this, I'd like your thoughts on it. He said that he didn't think triple glazing was much better than double glazing, even though they supply both. We got the same answer from another window manufacturer at the show, but since they didn't do triple glazing, we weren't surprised. Both salesmen and the chap at the Sustainable Energy Ireland stand seemed a bit bemused by us and all asked why we wanted triple glazing. We listed energy efficiency and sound insulation as our reasons, but I think they still thought we were a bit mad. We're building a house in the middle of a village, beside a main road, and opposite a pub, so sound insulation is a big issue. If anybody has any knowledge of sound insulation in timber framed houses, I'd love to hear it.
 
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Guest
Re: Triple Glazing

What's the advantage of triple over double glazing? In terms of heat insulation double glazing with a properly sealed air barrier between the panes can hardly be bettered. Perhaps triple glazing gives better sound insulation so? Seems like overkill to me. How much do triple glazed panes/panels cost to install and replace versus double glazed equivalents?
 
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Penny Foolish

Guest
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Yep, that's pretty much the response I've been getting. I've been doing a lot of reading on insulating for my new house, and triple glazing was recommended by a few people. I'll see if I can dig out the sources. 10% extra was the diff between double and triple from Marvin, but that was a ball park figure.
 
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Re: .

In terms of heat insulation I'd say that the advantages of triple over double glazing would be marginal and subject to the law of diminishing returns meaning that, at some stage, you'd be better off dealing with more significant "leakages" such as draughty windows/doors/letterboxes/chimneys/vents, poorly insulated walls/attics etc.
 
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leo

Guest
Re: Triple Glazing

I too fell for Marvin windows when building our house. Ended up going for uPVC though at 14,000 euro as the Marvin quote was 33,000 euro excluding patio doors! Very nice rep. explained that had we built window openings to match the standard sizes they manufacture the price would have been lower.You may still be in a position to do this.
On triple glazing, I would be more inclined to go for Pilkington K glass on double glazed units instead.
 
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heinbloed

Guest
tripleglazing

Thanks Penny Foolish !!
I appreciate your reply and I hope I can answer your - and the other posters-questions. I have a book here, title is "Green Design-sustainable building for Ireland",published by "the Office of Public Works"and "The European Commission" so I guess its data can be taken as reliable.ISBN 0-7076-2392-8
I cite from page 51 about the U-values of different glazing:
single clear glass------------U-value 5.4-5.6
double----------------------U-value 2.8-3.0
double with low e-coating----U-value 1.7-2.0
triple------------------------U-value 1.9
triple with two low e-coatings U-value 1.o-1.2

double low e-and partially
evacuated space-------------U-value 0.5
double low e-and argon-------U-value 1.5
triple 2 low e 2 argon---------U-value 0.8

This sheds some light on the Quality of tradesmen ! Three jumpers keep warmer than two. When I bought my
new windows two years ago I had to supply the window company in Cork with these numbers, even so they where selling "double low e-and argon" they where simply not prepared to come up with the basic data .
Anyhow.The table above shows a 50% better performance of "triple 2 low e2 argon " versus "double low e argon" .
Thanks again Penny Foolish, I will contact MARVIN soon to get a Quotation .
The idea behind good insulating windows is to turn an energy loosing part of the house (the window) into an energy gaining component . With" double low e argon" the loss during night equals roughly the gain during daylight .
With "triple 2 low e argon " there is actually a gain in energy , even if the sun is covered by clouds . "triple 2 low e argon " is therefore mandatory for passive buildings
(only up to 10 kilowatts per square meter/year).
These buildings will have an A-rating in the near future when the energy pass will become mandatory.
And sound insulation is of course better as well,the more mass in layers the better .But I have no data to go in to detail with that, sorry. Just logic. For sound insulation it is important to go for thick heavy frame material .
 
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Penny Foolish

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0, I still haven't found those stats for triple glazing, but I'll keep looking.

leo, that's a good point about the standard sized windows. Fair play to the Marvin rep, when he saw how close we were to building, he was very quick to advise us to have the window openings sized to fit a standard sized window.

Heinbloed, some very interesting stuff there, thanks. I'd love to have built a passive home, but we were constrained by the site dimensions and the fact that we are building in a village.

Scandinavian Homes use triple glazing with all their houses. They probably don't supply just the windows, but their technical guide makes a very interesting read all the same.
 
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Re: .

0, I still haven't found those stats for triple glazing, but I'll keep looking.
I think I have to stand corrected in the face of heinbloed's stats above! :) However I still wonder the benefit of super efficient (e.g. triple glazed) windows is worth it after a certain stage (e.g. when the majority of heat losses are due to other factors such as I mention above)? I wonder, on average, what proportion of heat is lost via windows in the general case (if there is such a thing...)?
 
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heinbloed

Guest
triple versus double

Assume a building that looses the energy of 1000l of oil through the vertical walls/windows .Assume 50% of the vertical leaf is window and 50% is wall.The building reg. min.for walls is an U-value of 0.45,for the simple double glazing it is 2.8-3.0.
150 l is lost through the wall (15%),850 l through the windows (85%).
The same structure with triple glazing with an U-value of 0.8 :150 l through the same wall , 300 l through the better windows . The difference : 550 LITERS !!!!!
Just a simple calculation , no other effects considered like gain of solar energy through the windows , just the loss through the outer vertical leaf of a standard structure with a standard oil demand .
I hope that sheds some light on the issue .
 
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Guest
Re: triple versus double

Thansk heinbloed - interesting stats. Any ball-park figure on the comparative heat loss through an attic - both insulated and uninsulated? I'd imagine that this is a large cause of heat loss for most houses. I still know people who don't have their attic insulated in spite of knowing that it's a cheap and simple way to make their house more comfortable and cut their energy costs.
 
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heinbloed

Guest
ball figure attic

No, it depends on size, quality of wind break -if any-and users behavior i.e.how much energy is used "below".But
www.sei.ie might give you a few clews.Building regs demand the best insulation on the ceiling/in the roof ,U-value 0.2 max.,I think there is reason for that.
 
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Laoise

Guest
Glazing - and frames

Hi all
Does anyone know if it's possible to get insulated window frames in Ireland?
We've got double-glazed, Argon filled, k-glass - so thought everything should be fairly OK. However, one of the problems we've had is that condensation still happens on the window frames themselves (pvc unfortunately, wood was way too expensive at the time!). When the frames get cold condensation droplets form on the frames as well as on the glass. I know that in Germany the frames themselves can actually be filled with insulating material to prevent this, but here that doesn't seem to be available. I know that air itself is a good insulating material - but that's only if it's not circulating. Maybe someone has come across a company that has thought of this ?
Laoise
 
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Penny Foolish

Guest
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Here's another supplier of triple glazing:

Dear Ms. Foolish,

We supply triple-glazed windows from Markfönster AB, Sweden to the Irish
market.

Yours sincerely,

Margaret Sheeran
Area Manager - Sjödalshus AB (Ireland)

Swedish Trade Centre Ltd.,
10 Glenrichmond,
Glanmire,
Co. Cork,
Ireland.

Tel: 021-4823622
Fax: 021-4823636
Mobile: 086-8815065
Email: msj@eircom.net
Web: www.sjodalshus.se/ie
 
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heinbloed

Guest
triple glazing

Hi Penny and the others !
I am actually looking for triple glazing without the frames ,I have frames already.But other readers will certainly benefit from the posts.Thanks.
 
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Confused

Guest
Re: k glass versus low-e

Can anyone explain the difference between Pilkington k glass (as required by building regs now) and low-e glass as mentioned numerous times here?
 
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cuchullain

Guest
triple glazing

Good post. I have double glazing pvc windows about 15 years old. Two of the windows now have condensation in between the panes. Two other windows have become 'hazy' between the panes. These are all 'main windows' and not top openings. This is out of a total of approx 10. also 2 velux windows ( out of 3) which I also installed at the same time had to be replaced, under warranty from velux as it turned out. Would there be more problems down the road with triple glaze, and while on bitterly cold and windy days the windows are excellent, nevertheless most days all windows are opened at the top for at least a few hours, so would this not dilute the benefit of triple glaze. I read somewhere recenty that part of the hugh rise in asthma in Ireland was lack of ventilation, maybe wer'e over insulating?
 
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