"Traffic Blues" TV on RTE: Lady prov licence, 5 kids not strapped in.


Good points raised here and, as the OP, this is why I thought it would be an interesting topic of discussion. I did think a small fine and 2 points was too lenient but I don't know what should have been done when you take into consideration the issues raised as quoted above.
 

Every citizen should be aware that offences against the state have that possibility. However, murder is not dealt with on the basis of a fixed penalty. You don't get arrested for certain offences, they are dealt with on the spot.

While you're right that there might have been a way, my point still remains about what to do while arranging that? Does the garda (and also the RTE crew claiming over time while waiting) sit around until a person can be found and then comes to pick up the kids? Do they throw them all in the van and wait at the station for them to be collected?

If I were to drive without insurance or dangerously, I'd expect a ticking off at the roadside and a summons to court, not the hand cuffs and a bit of a kicking in the van.

That's just the way it is, some offences are processed at the roadside, other more serious offences involve arrest etc.

Personally, I think the garda was right in the roadside dealing, but wrong in the extent of the penalty. I'd have thought a summons was more appropriate, however, we also aren't privy to the reasons for deciding on that penalty and whether other factors were taken into consideration. a 5 minute slot on RTE doesn't qualify us as judge, jury and executioner.
 
Latrade said:
If I were to drive without insurance or dangerously, I'd expect a ticking off at the roadside and a summons to court, not the hand cuffs and a bit of a kicking in the van.
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Nobody is suggesting 'a bit of a kicking'

My reference to arrest was in relation to the contempt she showed to the garda - not her motoring offence.

The fact that this was a televised scenario changes everying anyway.
 
Caveat said:
Nobody is suggesting 'a bit of a kicking'

My reference to arrest was in relation to the contempt she showed to the garda - not her motoring offence.

The fact that this was a televised scenario changes everying anyway.
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I know, but if you can't throw a bit of hyperbole into a discussion what's the world comming to? Such as comparing this offence to murder.

However, you have since shifted from the murder comparison to saying that showing contempt to a state appointed enforcer should be an arrestable offence. I'm not entirely sure I would agree with that. The offence is the offence, not my response or perceived feelings when approached about the offence.

Does that mean if I'm nice, police and respectful to the gardai after murdering someone, I get off?
 
RonanC said:
Trust me I know
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Generally, Askaboutmoney doesn't work that way. Evidence is kind-of important round here.


I've reviewed this clip from the RTE website (see [broken link removed]). I'm amazed that anyone could claim with certainty that this is a Garda car. It only appears for a few seconds, and the roof aeriel seems no different than any other Ford Focus roof aeriel.

If this is indeed a Garda car, this matter should be reported and followed up. But I don't see any evidence of this.
 



Crazy, crazy stuff Latrade.

Firstly, I did not compare the offence to murder - I gave one example (of many possibilities) where this woman would be separated from her kids, that's all.

As for showing contempt of this type during the course of being dealt with for another offence(s), yes, I would regard that as arrestable.

Does that mean if I'm nice, police and respectful to the gardai after murdering someone, I get off?
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Yes. Of course. That's exactly what I'm suggesting.
 
Caveat said:


Crazy, crazy stuff Latrade.

Firstly, I did not compare the offence to murder - I gave one example (of many possibilities) where this woman would be separated from her kids, that's all.
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What is the purpose of an example if not to suggest a pattern, representation or model: i.e. a comparison? She would also be arrested in the event of suspected terroism. However, it was a routine motoring offence covered by the fixed penalty system, so outside of that the example just wasn't relevant...or comparable. Equally she wouldn't be arrested for dropping litter, using a phone while driving, driving with a brake light not working, etc etc. Far more appropriate examples in this case.

Caveat said:
As for showing contempt of this type during the course of being dealt with for another offence(s), yes, I would regard that as arrestable.
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But it isn't arrestable, so again rather a moot point. Thankfully, there is no constitutional or statutory requirement for being polite and respectful to authority figures. If she'd have crossed the line into public order offences, fine, slap the cuffs on and be damned with the welfare of the kids (serves them right for being born to such an unfit mother if you ask me). As it was, she wasn't pleasant, but she was neither abusive or aggressive.

Caveat said:
Yes. Of course. That's exactly what I'm suggesting.
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If a minor offence can be escalated due to lack of respect, I don't see why civility can't lessen a more serious offence.
 
Latrade said:
If she'd have crossed the line into public order offences, fine, slap the cuffs on and be damned with the welfare of the kids (serves them right for being born to such an unfit mother if you ask me).
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What on earth?? This was supposed to be a discussion about a perceived leniency on the part of the Guards - this is a ridiculous comment and I assume it is trolling.
 

My only point is that if you don't want to risk being separated from your kids and all that entails, don't put yourself into a position where this might happen. Highly unlikely with regard to the motoring offence itself, possible in the light of her subsequent behaviour and likely IMO, had her behaviour escalated.




Arrestable IMO - that's all. Had it been Spain, Germany, France...her behaviour would not have gone unchallenged and could well have led to an arrest.

If a minor offence can be escalated due to lack of respect, I don't see why civility can't lessen a more serious offence.
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Well obviously not with murder anyway - which was your example.

I don't have anything more to say on this myself.
 
DeeFox said:
What on earth?? This was supposed to be a discussion about a perceived leniency on the part of the Guards - this is a ridiculous comment and I assume it is trolling.
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Absolutely not. Often on this forum we mention personal responsibility, well the kids should take responsibility for the actions of their mother. To be honest, given her track record of being impolite and minor motoring offences, I'm sickened the HSE weren't called in to take the kids into care. Even better throw them in the Joy too, that'll teach them for getting into the car in the first place. I can only assume that they now feel such offences and behaviour are acceptable, a spell in the Joy, or bringing back industrial schools, would set a better example.
 

The car shows a tax disc but not an insurance cert. This is the norm for a Garda unmarked car. That's always the thing to watch for in your rear view mirror. There is only one aerial visible from the shot as opposed to the normal 3 so that is inconclusive. The lack of insurance is evidence enough for me that it is certainly a government car of some sort.

If it is a private vehicle then it is uninsured and the Gardai present should have spoken to the driver immediately. I mean, even RTE were there for filming another episode
 
Latrade said:
I didn't see it either and I too am offended and outraged by whatever I'm told to be offended and outraged by.
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Yikees Latrade, you weren't kidding (but in future, speak for yourself only!)

I reckon you're trolling.....industrial schools??? kids in care??? Mountjoy???

Are you for real???
 
Cayne said:
Disgusting if you ask me bringing that up. Heard of ryan?
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Ah you see Latrade, that's the problem with sarcasm/irony. It's like an Italian car: you might think it's cool, sophisticated and fun to begin with, but it will always let you down spectacularly.
 
Ok, if there's an internet equivalent of a time out: I call it.

First, a bit of context. My posts have been towards what in my opinion was an overreaction to the incident described. I have been pretty clear that I think it was sensible, given the knowledge of the circumstances we have, for the garda to let the driver go home. But that the ultimately penalty seemed light.

Some comments were made that stated apparant disbelief at the circumstance where the footage hadn't been seen. I feel it reasonable to question that.

Lastly, more context in that in the very brief parts that were highlighted, I was (trying) to apply a lighter sense to the debate. An attempt at humour using sarcasm. In my defence, I don't use smilies as I find them sinister (no offence intended for those people who favour their left hand and are familiar with latin, we're all brothers and sisters and I honestly die inside each time I see those who favour their left struggle with the cruel, no doubt CIA or masonic plotted system, of writing pads, scissors and such day-to-day items. I feel for you all), plus I was under the impression that based upon the rest of the text, such an extreme statement slapped in the middle would be seen to be based on a "let's not take this too seriously"/"poke fun at the hard on crime view" and not that I'm a day or two away from promoting eugenics as an economic solution. (That too was some sarcasm).

And that's it. Time out over.
 
Caveat said:
Ah you see Latrade, that's the problem with sarcasm/irony. It's like an Italian car: you might think it's cool, sophisticated and fun to begin with, but it will always let you down spectacularly.
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Yes bit on the rare occasion it does work, it's worth it. I defy anyone to say that on the odd day my alfa works I don't look teh hawt.
 
Latrade said:
Ok, if there's an internet equivalent of a time out: I call it.
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Fair enough- sometimes hard to separate the ones who are being sarcastic from the ones who are trolling to the ones who genuinely hold very odd and completely indefensible views...
 

Exactly - what about the kids?

The one thing you should never do with kids is put them unrestrained in the back of a car with too many passengers in it driven by someone with no driving license.

The safety of the kids, who are innocent participants, should be the principal concern. They should never be put in such danger regardless of the inconvenience caused.
 
The woman should not have been allowed drive away
a - without seatbelts on the passengers
b - she didnt have a proper driving licence
end of !!
 
I saw this and thought it was a bit mad, did anyone reckon she had no shoes on when she got out the car to beg on her knees? are you allowed drive barefoot?
 
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