Trademark or patent required?

[Pope John 11]

Looking at getting into designing casual clothes wear with a difference.

My query relates to lets say:

1. Companies like fcuk & Gap - Have they obtained a trademark for these words on clothesware or a patent.

2. Company like Nike - Has it obtained a trademark for the shape, 'correct symbol' or a patent.

 

[WaterSprite]

Looking at getting into designing casual clothes wear with a difference.

My query relates to lets say:

1. Companies like fcuk & Gap - Have they obtained a trademark for these words on clothesware or a patent.

2. Company like Nike - Has it obtained a trademark for the shape, 'correct symbol' or a patent.

All are trademarks, including the Nike "swoosh". You could not get a patent on any of those things.

 

[Pope John 11]

All are trademarks, including the Nike "swoosh". You could not get a patent on any of those things.

Thanks Watersprite, helpful as ever, appreciate it. How long does it take to get a trade mark & whatabout copyright?

Is it possible to check a list of trademarks online or somewhere?

 

[WaterSprite]

Hi Pope

Copyright vests automatically & isn't required to be registered, but you can register it if you want. It's unusual enough to do so but gives you extra remedies for infringement if you do.

A trademark can take 6-12 months and probably costs in the region of €2k for an EU trademark.

You can search all registered trademarks in different jurisdictions - there's no global central database.

Irish ones here
EU ones [broken link removed]
US trademarks

 

[Pope John 11]

Hi Pope

Copyright vests automatically & isn't required to be registered, but you can register it if you want. It's unusual enough to do so but gives you extra remedies for infringement if you do.

A trademark can take 6-12 months and probably costs in the region of €2k for an EU trademark.

You can search all registered trademarks in different jurisdictions - there's no global central database.

Irish ones here
EU ones [broken link removed]
US trademarks

Thanks for that Watersprite, & I was hoping to knuckle down straight away, have to wait 6-12 months. Gives me time to research the idea, I suppose. Would it be possible to be incubated for this period of time or should I wait. I will definately need funding, but am afraid to talk to anyone until I have the trademark/copyright. Any comments Watersprite.

I could do with learning some business course too, or setting up your own business.

 

[jhegarty]

What exactly are you trying to protect.

Just the company name ?

 

[WaterSprite]

Hi Pope

we've really discussed all this quite a bit on AAM. There are numerous sources of funding, there are a number of start your own business courses & I recall a long discussion on disclosing ideas via NDA. Have you contacted EI or your local enterprise board to discuss options?

To be frank, no one will give you funding for a "secret" idea. If the value is in the trademark, you don't have to disclose that if you don't want to, but the business idea may be less compelling to a potential investor if you think the actual trademark is where the value is. I also doubt whether a trademark in and of itself will be the determining factor as to the success of the business.

As I said, copyright vests automatically so it doesn't exist until you write something; likewise, it automatically comes into existence once you do.

You have the option of either starting work on your project now (or contracting someone to do some of the work) and funding it yourself, or seeking funding for your idea before you have developed anything other than the idea itself. To do that, you will have to disclose the idea & your business plan to your potential investors- there's no other realistic way.

Sprite

p.s. a trademark application gives you priority from the filing date. It is worth something in and of itself (assuming you've done a reasonable search to ensure there isn't a similar one already granted) & doesn't mean that you have nothing for the 6-12 months you wait for approval of the trademark.

 

[Pope John 11]

Hi Pope

we've really discussed all this quite a bit on AAM. There are numerous sources of funding, there are a number of start your own business courses & I recall a long discussion on disclosing ideas via NDA. Have you contacted EI or your local enterprise board to discuss options?

I will check up on AAM, the other threads. I have not contactd EI, just thought of the idea yesterday.

To be frank, no one will give you funding for a "secret" idea. If the value is in the trademark, you don't have to disclose that if you don't want to, but the business idea may be less compelling to a potential investor if you think the actual trademark is where the value is. I also doubt whether a trademark in and of itself will be the determining factor as to the success of the business.

I understand

As I said, copyright vests automatically so it doesn't exist until you write something; likewise, it automatically comes into existence once you do.

Ok

You have the option of either starting work on your project now (or contracting someone to do some of the work) and funding it yourself, or seeking funding for your idea before you have developed anything other than the idea itself. To do that, you will have to disclose the idea & your business plan to your potential investors- there's no other realistic way.

Sprite

Ok

p.s. a trademark application gives you priority from the filing date. It is worth something in and of itself (assuming you've done a reasonable search to ensure there isn't a similar one already granted) & doesn't mean that you have nothing for the 6-12 months you wait for approval of the trademark.

Ok

I tried to check through the irish website for trademarks. Is it possible to display all trademarks, without putting in the company name. Otherwise I will find it difficult to find.

What exactly are you trying to protect.Just the company name ?

I am trying to trademark a particular shape that already exists. My company will be attached to the shape. Is that possible?

 

[onq]

I'm wondering where the 2K and six months come from.

I remember looking at this a few months back and there was a service for registration for around €70.00 - am I misremembering this?

ONQ.

 

[jhegarty]

I am trying to trademark a particular shape that already exists. My company will be attached to the shape. Is that possible?

It's quite complex on something generic like a shape.

Read up on the long running case between Apple (the mac/iPod company) versus Apple (the music publisher).

It should give you some good insights.

 

[Pope John 11]

It's quite complex on something generic like a shape.

Read up on the long running case between Apple (the mac/iPod company) versus Apple (the music publisher).

It should give you some good insights.

Thanks for that jhegarty. I will. You don't have a link to that case do you jhegarty? I just did a search & could'nt find it

Its like say for example using an existing shape of a hexagon & inscribing my company name with a certain form of text that already exists, if you get me. (Of course its not a hexagon), just an example.

 

[Pope John 11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps

There is a bit on it in here. I'll go through it.

 

[jhegarty]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

If you have words on the shape then it's easy. It's only using the generic shape on it's own would be difficult.

 

[Pope John 11]

Cheers for that jhegarty, I was thinking that.

 

[Pope John 11]

I'm wondering where the 2K and six months come from.

I remember looking at this a few months back and there was a service for registration for around €70.00 - am I misremembering this?

ONQ.

Any comments on the above jhegarty, watersprite & others.

 

[Pope John 11]

Is it possible to take two existing objects, combine them together & patent it? I have an idea for the Your Country Your Call and I think it my work. Can someone explain the terms & conditions. I have posted it here.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=132394

 

[WaterSprite]

Any comments on the above jhegarty, watersprite & others.

You can register it yourself, yes. The cost would be lower (€70 for an application in Ireland) but the timeline wouldn't be shorter. The €2k and 6 months comes from my direct experience in dealing with trademark agents for registering companies' trademarks & the cost would be an estimate for an Irish & EU trademark.

Here and here and here are the previous threads on patents & NDAs I was thinking about.

 

[Pope John 11]

Is it possible to take two existing objects, combine them together & patent it? I have an idea for the Your Country Your Call and I think it my work. Can someone explain the terms & conditions. I have posted it here.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=132394

Like I said watersprite, you are very helpful, thanks again.


Watersprite, can you comment on,


1. If it is possible to take two existing objects, put them together to create one, patent it & sell it as a product?


2. I am a bit concerned about the TERMS & CONDITIONS. Appreciate your answer on this one.


3. Whos to say that your-country-your-call will take two of the ideas & mingle them together to form one?

 

[WaterSprite]

The terms basically state that (i) if you win the competition, you have to assign full & exclusive rights to the Promoters (or whoever they nominate) (ii) if you don't win, you have to allow them to use your Proposal for the purposes of the competition. You retain the rights; their right to use the Proposal terminates when you exit the competition.

They can modify/merge your idea if they want.

The Proposals do not have to be kept confidential.

On your patent question - if the sum of the parts passes the test of patentability, then such a combination could be patented.

 

[Pope John 11]

The terms basically state that (i) if you win the competition, you have to assign full & exclusive rights to the Promoters (or whoever they nominate)

So, I cannot have involvement in the idea after, ner can you profit from it, in other words your dream idea is over after they hand you the cheque, not what I wanted to hear, don't know what to do now, its a pity

(ii) if you don't win, you have to allow them to use your Proposal for the purposes of the competition. You retain the rights; their right to use the Proposal terminates when you exit the competition.

You retain the rights to what, though, can you make a profit from producing your product? etc.

On your patent question - if the sum of the parts passes the test of patentability, then such a combination could be patented.

Thanks for this info watersprite.