Time to lift the 5km/20km restriction?

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Eureka101

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Can’t help but think this is counter productive to the business’s that are allowed to open.
I’d like to visit my closest hardware store which is about 10km but as it stands i still cannot until 8th June.!
And if I apply the logic ‘well it’s only advised’ then I may as well begin applying that logic to everything else. ( which I’m not Btw.! )
Then come 20th July when travel restrictions will supposedly be lifted and we can move freely whilst living alongside the virus, what is it that will be so different then compared to now?
Of course we all want this to be over but I currently cannot see how different things will be in 8 weeks and feel we need to be trusted to start to get our country moving and living again.
 
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The 5km distance applies to exercise and socialising.
If the hardware store, or opticians etc is 10km you can go.
 
Is going to buy plants and flower pots counted as an essential journey then? And if that store doesn’t have the item in stock but the next closet branch of that store ( 25km away does but beyond the limit.. ) therefore a wasted journey for myself and the business. Or walking along a deserted beach 200km away less risky than visiting a homeware ( sorry hardware.. ) store?
Not intentionally being contrary but can you see my point in even having the restriction and therefore the dilemma it causes?
It just brings up so many additional contradictions and uncertainty that I fail to see the relevance.
Common sense and trust required maybe?
 
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Eureka101 said:
Of course we all want this to be over but I currently cannot see how different things will be in 8 weeks and feel we need to be trusted to start to get our country moving and living again.
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I dont think they can keep up this level of restrictions very much longer anyway, people will just ignore them, the guards have said that many are becoming unenforceable. When they began lifting the restrictions last Monday it was a bit ridiculous to be so dogmatic about differentiating between hardware and homeware, big mistake. The social media mob have become tired of the corona virus lockdown so probably wont bother with the naming and shaming they were doing at the start of the whole thing.
 
The moral dilemma shouldn’t be on the public. Is this good for the nations mental health?
The summer will be gone before we know it, the clocks will roll back and this will all feel twice as bad then...
Our health service and the nation have done themselves proud in all of this. Our Taoiseach has been all but invisible throughout and has left it to Dr Holohan to lead our country with graphs and charts.
Where is the public engagement?
 
Eureka101 said:
Is going to buy plants and flower pots counted as an essential journey then? And if that store doesn’t have the item in stock but the next closet branch of that store ( 25km away does but beyond the limit.. ) therefore a wasted journey for myself and the business.
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If the shop is open and has an item you can't get closer, it's one of the permitted journeys, at least that's my understanding of the current phase.
The km limit has no bearing on shopping.
 
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Great, maybe I’ll head up to IKEA in Belfast then, whilst driving past all the unfortunate Irish owned homeware stores here and the ROI tax paying IKEA store in Ballymun...
The only reason all homeware stores were prevented from opening here was because they wanted to prevent IKEA here opening up due to fears of large crowds..
Our roadmap needs to be adjusted as its starting to unravel, or maybe that’s just me....
 
The Taoiseach is steered by public health advice.

"As the risk of the second wave of the virus is a possibility, public health advice is that three weeks is allotted from one phase to the next, to ensure the virus stays under control between each phase.

Mr Varadkar added there is a risk that the country would have to go back a stage if that happens."
 
I’ll do my best then not to get infected as I drive around the country doing essential shopping....
So as the title suggests, is it time to lift the 5km/20km restriction? And then on the 8th June move to phase ‘Common sense and trust?’
 
Sophrosyne said:
Mr Varadkar added there is a risk that the country would have to go back a stage if that happens."
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thats what he said but there is no way they can do that, they will just stick to the conservative plan they have in place or speed it up, that was the reason why they were so conservative in the first place because they know they cannot go backwards. Even if their was a big second wave, highly unlikely ,they would never be able to lock everything down again. This is a one off that can never be repeated although there will be lingering measures that could take a long time to completely extinguish.
 
Eureka101 said:
Is going to buy plants and flower pots counted as an essential journey then? And if that store doesn’t have the item in stock but the next closet branch of that store ( 25km away does but beyond the limit.. ) therefore a wasted journey for myself and the business. Or walking along a deserted beach 200km away less risky than visiting a homeware ( sorry hardware.. ) store?
Not intentionally being contrary but can you see my point in even having the restriction and therefore the dilemma it causes?
It just brings up so many additional contradictions and uncertainty that I fail to see the relevance.
Common sense and trust required maybe?
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There are two popular misconceptions at work here.

First, the (now) 5km limit applies ONLY to exercise and gatherings of 4 people out of doors. It does NOT apply to shopping, caring, medical appointments, going to the bank/ATM or any of the other permitted reasons for leaving your house.

Secondly, there is NO requirement that your journey to buy flower pots and plants is essential. Or even reasonable. Nor is there any requirement that you buy them at the nearest open location. You are absolutely allowed drive past any amount of other open outlets and make your purchases in the outlet of your choice, even if it's hundreds of km away.

For some reason, journalists consistently get this wrong. They shouldn't. It's not that difficult to understand.

It also doesn't help that the government keeps on conflating the legal position and recommendations. There is a big difference between saying "You are not allowed" and "We strongly recommend you don't..." However, these concepts appears to have lost all meaning. This appears deliberate. (Remember all the times we were told over-70s were not allowed leave home.) This is not a grown up way to do responsible citizenship. I am quite happy to comply with reasonable recommendations (whether I'm obliged to or not) and I exceed them in many cases eg only going supermarket shopping every 10 days or so.

But I expect to be told the truth by my government as to what precisely the law is. I don't think that's unreasonable.
 
The 5k restriction is causing a lot of pain and the 20k won't be much better and I can't see the logic of it. I'm sticking to it btw, just finding it extremely frustrating.
 
This is all nonsense and people in Ireland are going to look back at this in 6 months time and wonder what the hell it was all about. Every other country in Europe is opening up faster. The bottom line is the testing and tracing is not where it should be. We no longer have a health service just an under subscribed covid-service and a civil servant with a medical degree is running the country in lieu of an actual government.
 
I agree it should be lifted. The purpose of a lockdown is not to eradicate the virus, but to stop the health service from being overwhelmed, a target that has been easily realised. I think the Irish government has lost sight of this.
 
If I drive in my car 20 kms to a scenic location....I am in my car with no contact with anyone else (unless a Garda stops me, not wearing a mask, asks me for my drivers licence, handles it with the same gloves that he has used to handle many others, then hands it back to me) what is the problem?

I get out of my car and walk my walk. Is this any different to doing this within 5 kms of my home?
 
No, it isn’t any different in my mind.
Surely the same protocols of respiratory etiquette, social distancing etc have the same relevance whether within 5km or 500km.
We must start living alongside this virus whilst doing all we can as responsible citizens to reduce the chance of infection.
Is it safer to travel to unlimited shops without any restriction on distance versus visiting a family member or close friend in another county whilst practicing the social etiquette?
This distance restriction is such an obvious contradiction and must be removed ASAP.
 
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Eureka101 said:
No, it isn’t any different in my mind.
Surely the same protocols of respiratory etiquette, social distancing etc have the same relevance whether within 5km or 500km.
We must start living alongside this virus whilst doing all we can as responsible citizens to reduce the chance of infection.
Is it safer to travel to unlimited shops without any restriction on distance versus visiting a family member or close friend in another county whilst practicing the social etiquette?
This distance restriction is such an obvious contradiction and must be removed ASAP.
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It is about measures to reduce and limit the spread of the virus, none of which are 100% effective but cumulatively make an impact.

If you are infected and are spreading it, the distance limit is about limiting the spread of your infections to one location cluster, rather than setting up a chain that spreads out across the entire country.

Every encounter you have is a risk, social distancing & respiratory etiquette is about reducing the risk and about only taking the risk when necessary such as for shopping or work or needed exercise. But it's not 100% effective, or rather 100% of the people are not going to be 100% effective at it.

In some countries you could only shop 2-3 times a week. The measures in different countries have the same goal but are limited by the capacity of what the authorities can enforce. There is no contradiction in goal, there are always going to be anomalies in what is enforceable.
 
IsleOfMan said:
If I drive in my car 20 kms to a scenic location....I am in my car with no contact with anyone else (unless a Garda stops me, not wearing a mask, asks me for my drivers licence, handles it with the same gloves that he has used to handle many others, then hands it back to me) what is the problem?
I get out of my car and walk my walk. Is this any different to doing this within 5 kms of my home?
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I think it's more a case of how can any of what you said be verified or enforced.
 
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odyssey06 said:
The measures in different countries have the same goal but are limited by the capacity of what the authorities can enforce. There is no contradiction in goal, there are always going to be anomalies in what is enforceable.
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thats very true, but is there also a time limit on how long they can enforce what they can enforce ? therefore even if it is not scientifically the right time they still need to relax so as to keep the population on board. When people see every other country relaxing much earlier they want to know why not in Ireland especially as the infection never got out of control and most of the hospitals are now empty.
 
I agree, but unless this restriction contradiction is made ‘a thing’ this week before the ‘lesser spotted Leo’ appears virtually unannounced on tv this Friday for his thrice weekly cameo, then we can all look forward to another 6 weeks of not being able to visit friends and family beyond 20km....
 
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