Time off to breastfeed

liaconn

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Someone I know at work is returning from ten months maternity leave (4 months of it unpaid). She has asked for, and got, permission to come in late every morning in order to breast feed her ten month old baby.
Is it just me or is that a bit cheeky?
 
What is cheeky about it? We are constantly bombarded with medical opinion that its better to breastfeed, in fact I have friends who were made to feel dreadful in maternity hospitals for choosing to bottle feed. So if women are supposed to be doing it, how would they do it when they return to work without being late or nipping out or whatever?

I think its good when companies are encouraging of women who have babies. Too many of them are awful and its discouraged by the culture of the place. I have friends who have told me that the minute a pregnancy is announced in work, that girls career is effectively over.
 
I am very envious of anyone who can interrupt their career, fulfil a personal goal (replace with appropriate word depending on what it is) and is able to come back to their job. I would not call that the end of anyone's career but a fantastic opportunity. It's about priorities, isn't it?
 
I am very envious of anyone who can interrupt their career, fulfil a personal goal (replace with appropriate word depending on what it is) and is able to come back to their job. I would not call that the end of anyone's career but a fantastic opportunity. It's about priorities, isn't it?

I would call it a fantastic opportunity of they could come back to their job and have the same opportunities of career progression and promotion, but unfortunately thats not always the case.
 
the problem i suppose for the company is that while your are away having a baby, they have to train someone up to take your place, then when you return they have to tell that person they are no longer needed, then you might decide in a year or two that you want to have another child! problem starts all over again for the company, ......its a hard one to to call.
 
the problem i suppose for the company is that while your are away having a baby, they have to train someone up to take your place, then when you return they have to tell that person they are no longer needed, then you might decide in a year or two that you want to have another child! problem starts all over again for the company, ......its a hard one to to call.

Oh yeah, I agree totally. Plus, when you come back you may be disinclined to travel or do unexpected longer hours, for example in my last job if something went wrong I was just expected to stay on, til any kind of time, 10pm, midnight etc.... I wasnt paid for it, and I could have refused to do it. But if Id refused every time then I would have been left to one side while someone who was prepared to do it got promoted along.

Im sure its not easy to juggle both so I think its a good thing when companies make reasonable allowances.

But I can also see how it seems cheeky, because now someone gets a distinct advantage for procreating, while others have to come in at the normal time for not having children!
 
the problem i suppose for the company is that while your are away having a baby, they have to train someone up to take your place, then when you return they have to tell that person they are no longer needed, then you might decide in a year or two that you want to have another child! problem starts all over again for the company, ......its a hard one to to call.

So what should women do ??? Stop having babies So as not to make things difficult for their company ? If you take that to its extreme end then the human race dies off !

It's this attitude that makes it so hard for women to get equality in the workplace.

Maternity leave is covered by law so that women aren't discriminated against. Someone has to carry the future tax payers, the future doctors , the future waiting staff.
 
Maternity leave is covered by law so that women aren't discriminated against. Someone has to carry the future tax payers, the future doctors , the future waiting staff.

That's all well and good but there still is and always will be a lot of unspoken but commonly practiced stuff when it comes to female employees with young children. A friend in recruitment told me once that I have much better chances of getting a job if I don't wear my engagement ring to the interview (I was looking for a job and I was engaged) as it is often interpreted as 'Ah, she will be getting married soon and then she'll be having babies'. A lot of companies, especially SMEs don't want the hassle of replacing employees on maternity leave and training temps, and then making allowances for staying at home with a sick child, having to leave at 5.30pm on the dot because a child needs to be picked up from the child minder or the creche,... Realistically, from a company's point of view, this is justified but still unfair to the employee.

Yonks ago I had a PA who had two small children. She used to turn up for work one week a month as one child would get sick for a week, then the other and then she'd pick whatever it was from them. Her lunch breaks used to be 2 hours because she had to go to PTA / bring a child to the dentist / AND eat and the rest of us were to just put up with it. Needles to say, she never stayed a minute longer to make up for a PTA / trip to the dentist / ... as her childminder was leaving whether she was back home or not. This may be an extreme example, but even as a mother of a young child, I would be very, very reluctant to hire a woman in similar circumstances unless she had one of a kind splecialist skills or knowledge I needed.
 
Someone I know at work is returning from ten months maternity leave (4 months of it unpaid). She has asked for, and got, permission to come in late every morning in order to breast feed her ten month old baby.
Is it just me or is that a bit cheeky?

In this case I also think this is a bit cheeky - I know plenty of women who work and breastfeed was well but they pump early morning and leave bottles - its 'll about preparation. Just out of interest - how late does she come in at?
 
In this case I also think this is a bit cheeky - I know plenty of women who work and breastfeed was well but they pump early morning and leave bottles - its 'll about preparation. Just out of interest - how late does she come in at?

Thats not a very family friendly attitude!! So although she is already suffering lack of sleep with a new baby and night feeds, you want her to get up early to pump as well??? No doubt she uses the extra hour to do that. The baby is not existing all day on the one morning feed.

It is in law that she can do this and it was enshrined in law to help encourage breastfeeding.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ps/after_your_baby_is_born/breastfeeding.html
 
It's very disappointing in terms of women's equality to think these kinds of attitudes still exist.

Of course these attitudes exist - it is naive to think that they dont.

Some workplaces are more accomodating than others. End of.

It probably depends on a number of things, how male oriented or female oriented the workplace is, the ages of the staff, the ability/ease at which someone can be replaced short term etc...

I remember one occasion where 4 women from one department went on maternity leave at around the same time - there were only 7 people in the department. So there was chaos for a while. It happens.
 
Of course these attitudes exist - it is naive to think that they dont.

Some workplaces are more accomodating than others. End of.

It probably depends on a number of things, how male oriented or female oriented the workplace is, the ages of the staff, the ability/ease at which someone can be replaced short term etc...

I remember one occasion where 4 women from one department went on maternity leave at around the same time - there were only 7 people in the department. So there was chaos for a while. It happens.

That's why we need the legislation, and it needs to be enforced. Women are still being discriminated against because of their sex. So I can be brilliant at my job, hardworking and reliable yet not get the job because I am female and might have babies.

The chaos in your department was down to bad management. Women have to give lots of notice to take maternity leave. It's managements responsibility to put a cover plan in place, hire temps, redistribute workloads etc.
 
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The chaos in your department was down to bad management. Women have to give lots of notice to take maternity leave. It's managements responsibility to put a cover plan in place, hire temps, redistribute workloads etc.

No, the chaos was that no one could have predicted 4 highly skilled staff would all be needing maternity leave at the same time. These were staff with professional qualifications, years of experience and on site training and were not easily replaceable - you cant just 'train someone up' in a matter of weeks or months - there is a cost to training too as the trainer is not getting their own job done. Plus, with the qualification set needed it was hard to find someone willing to only cover a maternity leave, people wanted permanent jobs (it was back during boom time as well). Multiply that by 4, at the same time, more than half the dept, and there was chaos.

You dont have to give lots of notice for maternity leave, legally you give 4 weeks notice (although in most cases unofficial notice is given by the fact the woman is obviously pregnant - but not always). An employer cant start training someone new until you have given the official notice though, so 4 highly skilled people to be replaced in 4 weeks - no wonder there was chaos!

Here:
Notice: You must give your employer at least 4 weeks' written notice of your intention to take maternity leave and you must also provide your employer with a medical certificate confirming the pregnancy. If you intend to take the additional 16 weeks’ maternity leave you must provide your employer with at least 4 weeks' written notice. Both these notices can be given at the same time.
 
Thats not a very family friendly attitude!! So although she is already suffering lack of sleep with a new baby and night feeds, you want her to get up early to pump as well??? No doubt she uses the extra hour to do that. The baby is not existing all day on the one morning feed.

It is in law that she can do this and it was enshrined in law to help encourage breastfeeding.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ps/after_your_baby_is_born/breastfeeding.html

I have no doubt she is entitled to it i'm not questioning that! For me, I would say that after a 10 month maternity leave a good routine could have been established which doesn't involve taking an hour of each morning to breastfeed - yes you are entitled to it, does that mean you should use every single hour of it? I'm not so sure! I have worked with various women over the years who have had babies, most of them did not allow it to disrupt work when they returned following maternity leave, they took only what they needed to take. I did work with one woman who was of the opinion that every single entitlement should be used fully so all sick days were used, force majeure, extended maternity etc, every year she had a significant amount of time off for various reasons. Her sick days actually became a target for her, she aimed to use each and every one of them and in a small company this bred resentment among staff and management. I would imagine that there could be an abuse of this breastfeeding entitlement? I mean what is there to stop an employee who has just had a baby to claim that they are breastfeeding and need an hour off each morning??
 
I mean what is there to stop an employee who has just had a baby to claim that they are breastfeeding and need an hour off each morning??

Nothing at all as far as I know. So maybe all new mothers should be given an hour off to cover feeding or its discriminatory against non breast feeders?

The law actually covers breast feeding and expressing:
In this section ‘breastfeeding’ means
breastfeeding a child or expressing breast milk
and feeding it to a child immediately or storing
it for the purpose of feeding it to the child at
a later time.’’.
- source.


Wonder how long a woman gets to do it for - I dont see it in the legislation - could a women be breast feeding and getting paid time off for - 5 years say?
 
yes you are entitled to it, does that mean you should use every single hour of it?

Just on this, why shouldnt you use it if its there for you to use? I mean, if you are genuinely breast feeding (not pretending to!). It was put in place to allow women to use it. Are you suggesting that because some women dont use it, others shouldnt?
 
No, the chaos was that no one could have predicted 4 highly skilled staff would all be needing maternity leave at the same time. These were staff with professional qualifications, years of experience and on site training and were not easily replaceable - you cant just 'train someone up' in a matter of weeks or months - there is a cost to training too as the trainer is not getting their own job done. Plus, with the qualification set needed it was hard to find someone willing to only cover a maternity leave, people wanted permanent jobs (it was back during boom time as well). Multiply that by 4, at the same time, more than half the dept, and there was chaos.

You dont have to give lots of notice for maternity leave, legally you give 4 weeks notice (although in most cases unofficial notice is given by the fact the woman is obviously pregnant - but not always). An employer cant start training someone new until you have given the official notice though, so 4 highly skilled people to be replaced in 4 weeks - no wonder there was chaos!

Here:

So what's the alternative ? Don't employ women of child bearing age ?
 
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