I didn’t bring up working Christmas Eve, other posters made the point that they, as public sector employees, had to work Christmas Eve whereas private sector employees didn’t. I simply made the point that this is meaningless unless it is put in context of overall holiday leave and working hours.
...When making a comparison of staff on €22’000 a year you have to take into account the likely pension benefits (they won’t retire on €22’000), the short working week (35 hours or over 10% less then the standard working week), and the generally better terms and conditions.
A friend of mine is a grade 6 public sector employee. He works 35 hours a week, gets 6 weeks holidays plus 2 privilege days plus he can work up one day a month of overtime on his laughable short week (his words). That gives him a grand total of 44 days off a year (plus paid sick leave). His opinion is that most of the people he works with know they have it handy and would be willing to take a pay cut followed by a 12-18 month pay freeze. I don’t know what he gets paid but he said he is one hell of an hourly rate.
Yes it is.€22,000 is also the starting point of the Clerical Officer grade is that such huge money??
Yes it is.
If it is for someone doing front line support and office admin, with no experience, it certainly is. This, you say, is only the starting point! - what on earth does it go up to?
...People wouldn't touch the C & P Service because the perks like job security didn't factor against bonuses, large wage packs etc which they received when they walked in the door. It was a bit like a certain large fast food chain, Irish people looked down upon those who chose that as their career path. ....
How much does the equivalent worker get in other countries, for example Poland? or even India?If its such a huge starting point then how come vacancies could not be filled in the late 90's and early to mid 00's so much so they had to get rid of the bottom four points of the scale!
How much does the equivalent worker get in other countries, for example Poland? or even India?
That's who Ireland is now competing with.
Can you not see that if you increase public sector wages, you are increasing inflation which in turn increases costs and wages in general?Thats a whole new topic, best suited to a new thread on outsourcing public sector services. Can't get a car fixed from someone in Mumbai, or buy a pint of milk off them, or collect dole etc.
Can you not see that if you increase public sector wages, you are increasing inflation which in turn increases costs and wages in general?
People did take the jobs; they were just creating them with such speed that it was impossible to fill them all quickly. For example in 2003 there were about 50’000 people working in health, by 2007 that had gone up to over100’000.If its such a huge starting point then how come vacancies could not be filled in the late 90's and early to mid 00's so much so they had to get rid of the bottom four points of the scale!!!
Then your point is incorrect.My point is its still meaningless even with that information.
Then your point is incorrect.
For those posting and counter posting about time off at Christmas can they please state their total annual leave? It would also be good if they could state their standard working week and if they can work up extra days off by working overtime.
I get 20 days, my minimum hours are 39 and everyone here gets paid overtime. I never work less than 48 hours a week and have taken 10 sick days in the last 18 years, 6 of them for hospitalisation.
Many friends in the private sector work long hours with no time off in lieu, no paid overtime and no paid sick days.....
For example in 2003 there were about 50’000 people working in health, by 2007 that had gone up to over100’000.
As an aside theres no point keeping an office or business open on christmas eve unless theres useful work being done. My local superquinn was open on New Years Day and the staff said they could count the customers on one hand. no point in that. I'm sure its the same for many places public or private on christmas eve too. This should be easy to predict based on previious years activity on these days.
I didn’t bring up working Christmas Eve, other posters made the point that they, as public sector employees, had to work Christmas Eve whereas private sector employees didn’t. I simply made the point that this is meaningless unless it is put in context of overall holiday leave and working hours.
Good post Poohbear.
Can you clarify if the Sec Gen of each department can make staff redundant? For example after the creation of the HSE the staff numbers in the Dept of Health should, I would suggest, have dropped considerable. Can the Sec General get 200 staff in a room and say, “sorry lads, we don’t have a job for you anymore; you’re all being let go.”?
When making a comparison of staff on €22’000 a year you have to take into account the likely pension benefits (they won’t retire on €22’000), the short working week (35 hours or over 10% less then the standard working week), and the generally better terms and conditions.
A friend of mine is a grade 6 public sector employee. He works 35 hours a week, gets 6 weeks holidays plus 2 privilege days plus he can work up one day a month of overtime on his laughable short week (his words). That gives him a grand total of 44 days off a year (plus paid sick leave). His opinion is that most of the people he works with know they have it handy and would be willing to take a pay cut followed by a 12-18 month pay freeze. I don’t know what he gets paid but he said he is one hell of an hourly rate.
You are being obtuse. A person doing an clerical job in the public sector who gets 30 days annual leave but has to work Christmas Eve is still better off than a private sector employee who gets 20 days annual leave but doesn’t have to work Christmas Eve. Your attempt to muddy the water on what is a very straightforward point is bordering on the ridiculous.You mean my point that different jobs, (fireman, officer worker, santa, self employed company director) have different amounts of leave, working hours and days like christmas eve off, so comparing those in isolation, out of context, like you are attempting to, is meaningless.
You're saying thats incorrect, and taking it out of context is valid? Comparing annual leave, overtime, working hours, of say a policeman to an actor? Or a Doctor to a Restaurant owner? Makes no sense to me.
I agree. I presume you include the public sector workers who were moaning about working Christmas Eve in that group?What I don't understand is, if people don't like their hours, and conditions. (I assume that why they are playing the martyr) why not move to a job or career that has better conditions.
I agree with all of that.I dunno where you are going with that anyway. The topic is time off for christmas shopping. Theres simply no need for that, with internet shopping and late opening hours. Try to find a mechanic or a dentist that works outside office hours, or get a couch or fridge delivered outside office hours now there you might have a case. At the end of the day, the public sector can't afford, or afford to be seen to have, "nice to have", frills like christmas shopping.
As an aside theres no point keeping an office or business open on christmas eve unless theres useful work being done. My local superquinn was open on New Years Day and the staff said they could count the customers on one hand. no point in that. I'm sure its the same for many places public or private on christmas eve too. This should be easy to predict based on previious years activity on these days.
What's a grade 6 public sector employee? A consultant? And when did his opinion of what his colleagues think make any type of decent point whatsoever?
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