"Time for reality check on State’s capacity to build social housing"

[Peanuts20]

Not to forget the impending fire safety works required on virtually every apartment complex in the country. Just went through a very painful sale delayed by fire safety issues; there’s a storm coming here that is going to generate a huge amount of work for the building trade.

The storm is already here, between Pyrite and fire safety as starters

I used to pass an apartment block being built in the early 00's in Dublin. I'm no expert but even to my laymans eye, you could see the blockwork was shoddy beyond belief. Plaster covered a lot of ills. I lived in a number of rented Celtic tigers apartments during that period, all had issues. Glad I live in a 70s built house now.

 

[RetirementPlan]

I have no doubt this will be the future, but at present it is one house rented at half price.

And worse again it's in Holland. They like to build weird for the sake of it. See here.

Cube house - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I have been in them, while they look cute they are utterly ridiculous.

This may provide houses in Dublin when the current generation of first time buyers children are looking for homes.

After the planners get their heads around them.

After BATU accepts them.

After an Irish housing manufacturing industry comes into being.

It's not just the Dutch in fairness;

Could 3D-printed homes be Ireland's housing crisis solution? - Extra.ie

The future of housing could see 3D printers building our homes from the ground up while minimising production time, and potentially making houses more

extra.ie

 

[Purple]

In order to address the labour shortage in construction how about giving the State Pension at 60 to tradespeople involved in the Construction sector while increasing it to 68 for the rest of us?
That would make the sector more attractive and would deal with the reality that construction is hard, skilled, manual work that's difficult to do as you get older.

 

[Purple]

Are cheap factor build flat-packed homes like this the answer?

 

[T McGibney]

In order to address the labour shortage in construction how about giving the State Pension at 60 to tradespeople involved in the Construction sector while increasing it to 68 for the rest of us?
That would make the sector more attractive and would deal with the reality that construction is hard, skilled, manual work that's difficult to do as you get older.

It wouldn't make a whit of difference. Most tradesmen are physically past it for construction work by age 60 owing to inevitable wear and tear so they're retired at least from that occupation by then anyway.

 

[Purple]

It wouldn't make a whit of difference. Most tradesmen are physically past it for construction work by age 60 owing to inevitable wear and tear so they're retired at least from that occupation by then anyway.

That's my point. If people knew they could get a pension at 60 they might be more inclined to enter the sector.

 

[Protocol]

Is this physical nature of the work one reason why there are nearly 40,000 building workers on JSA "the dole"?

21000 = craft and related
18,700 = plant and machine operatives

 

[Purple]

Is this physical nature of the work one reason why there are nearly 40,000 building workers on JSA "the dole"?

21000 = craft and related
18,700 = plant and machine operatives

Wow, that's crazy. I'd say a large proportion of them are working and claiming the JSA.

 

[T McGibney]

Is this physical nature of the work one reason why there are nearly 40,000 building workers on JSA "the dole"?

21000 = craft and related
18,700 = plant and machine operatives

No, to be on job seekers you have to be both fit and available for work.

I'd say the key reason is that there's so little housebuilding going on.

 

[Purple]

I'd say the key reason is that there's so little housebuilding going on.

The impression being given is that labour shortages are a major reason that there is so little housebuilding on. It is certainly the case for the builders I know. My former neighbour had a crew of around 30 lads and 40-50 contractors he used. During Covid the Eastern European lads went home and most haven't come back. He said he's employ 40 people tomorrow if he could get them.
I've another friend (yes, I've two friends) who said he's been waiting over a year for his extension to start because his builder is so busy and can't get tradespeople.
Anecdotally pay for bricklayers, plasterers and carpenters are back at boom prices.
Another acquaintance (not a friend, I've only the two) is building a house in Kilkenny. It's 240 Square metres and he's been quoted €45k labour to have it plastered.

 

[T McGibney]

The impression being given is that labour shortages are a major reason that there is so little housebuilding on. It is certainly the case for the builders I know. My former neighbour had a crew of around 30 lads and 40-50 contractors he used. During Covid the Eastern European lads went home and most haven't come back. He said he's employ 40 people tomorrow if he could get them.
I've another friend (yes, I've two friends) who said he's been waiting over a year for his extension to start because his builder is so busy and can't get tradespeople.
Anecdotally pay for bricklayers, plasterers and carpenters are back at boom prices.
Another acquaintance (not a friend, I've only the two) is building a house in Kilkenny. It's 240 Square metres and he's been quoted €45k labour to have it plastered.

Yes to all that, but when bricklayers, plasterers and carpenters are undoubtedly both in short supply and making lots of money, there are fewer openings for the sort of builders labourer who used be common on house building sites 15-20 years ago. I know of lads now working in hardware shops, driving vans and even in the likes of Lidl who would be attracted back to building if there was enough of it going on.

 

[Firefly]

The impression being given is that labour shortages are a major reason that there is so little housebuilding on. It is certainly the case for the builders I know. My former neighbour had a crew of around 30 lads and 40-50 contractors he used. During Covid the Eastern European lads went home and most haven't come back. He said he's employ 40 people tomorrow if he could get them.
I've another friend (yes, I've two friends) who said he's been waiting over a year for his extension to start because his builder is so busy and can't get tradespeople.
Anecdotally pay for bricklayers, plasterers and carpenters are back at boom prices.
Another acquaintance (not a friend, I've only the two) is building a house in Kilkenny. It's 240 Square metres and he's been quoted €45k labour to have it plastered.

I had been trying to get the plasterer we used in the past back in to plaster a few rooms. He finally said he could come last Sat & Sun if that was any good and I nearly bit his arm off. It's all done now but in fairness the price wasn't too bad. It looks great, except it needs to be painted now

 

[Purple]

Yes to all that, but when bricklayers, plasterers and carpenters are undoubtedly both in short supply and making lots of money, there are fewer openings for the sort of builders labourer who used be common on house building sites 15-20 years ago. I know of lads now working in hardware shops, driving vans and even in the likes of Lidl who would be attracted back to building if there was enough of it going on.

Fair enough but I think many of them realise that it's hard physical work and not very well paid considering the attrition on the body and the dirt, danger and long hours. There's a lot to be said for a safe clean job in Lidl that you can do until you are in your mid to late 60's, especially when the marginal tax rate is over 50%.
I think much of our labour shortage is down to that.

I've a qualified chef working for me in a factory. He's a fantastic work ethic. He could earn twice as much back working as a chef but the hours are long and antisocial and the work is also physically attritional and more than half of the extra money he'd earn would be taken in tax.

 

[Purple]

I had been trying to get the plasterer we used in the past back in to plaster a few rooms. He finally said he could come last Sat & Sun if that was any good and I nearly bit his arm off. It's all done now but in fairness the price wasn't too bad. It looks great, except it needs to be painted now

I hate painting. Tiling, plumbing, wallpapering, a bit of carpentry, even a bit of plastering but not painting. I'm too fussy. It takes me forever.

 

[Firefly]

I hate painting. Tiling, plumbing, wallpapering, a bit of carpentry, even a bit of plastering but not painting. I'm too fussy. It takes me forever.

I just bought a paint sprayer...probably take me longer to cover up the place and clean the place afterwards but at least I can pretend I have a gun and have some fun!

 

[lff12]

It wouldn't make a whit of difference. Most tradesmen are physically past it for construction work by age 60 owing to inevitable wear and tear so they're retired at least from that occupation by then anyway.

You haven't met our local "window doctor". Everyone is surprised to hear he is still on the go, despite looking as if he is about to keel over and die (a very good tradesperson too).

 

[lff12]

I had been trying to get the plasterer we used in the past back in to plaster a few rooms. He finally said he could come last Sat & Sun if that was any good and I nearly bit his arm off. It's all done now but in fairness the price wasn't too bad. It looks great, except it needs to be painted now

I was talking to a window cleaner yesterday who does *just* enough work to keep himself under the VAT threshold, so he doesn't have the hassle of it. I suspect the paperwork required for self employed might make it easier to just go and get a regular job with a salary and benefits.