Timber frame versus Block

What are people's thoughts or experience on these? Currently live in a timber frame - very warm, but walls are paper thin so noise between rooms is poor and hanging heavy objects is a challenge. Parents have block house - cold, but very solid. I'm interested in building in the country, so interested how timber frame would be there, as opposed to an estate in Dublin.

In Timber frame in the country. Working well. There is a bit of sound transfer but as no neighbours its not such an issue at the moment.

I suppose if you're going to have teenagers playing music or people studying then a bit of consideration will need to be shown.

Also, rockwool in the partitions is supposed to be good, I think we have some but it was one of those rare cases where building work too fast didnt allow for ultra careful mointoring to ensure rockwool got everywhere we intended.

Nice & warm so cant ask for more really. However, cost is an issue I think, so if I was building to sell I'd say I'd go block.

If could get own crew to erect the frame it would be great, subbie crews from the timber framers seem to be very hit & miss.

We will def. be running with timber frame if we ever get planning! One co. we looked into were Cygnum based in Cork - they offer a silent home package which is based on the only problem that I see with TF - ie poor sound proofing. Their website is very informative and is worth checking out...

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I am currently doing a timber frame self build in the north east and put wood fibre sound insulation between rooms and floors to reduce sound transfer.

Lastbuilders

Interesting feedback. How do you find hanging havy objects on the walls?

Massey said:

Interesting feedback. How do you find hanging havy objects on the walls?

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Make sure you're driving into a timber lath in the stud partition, check where the skirting is nailed. Otherwise I think they are at 400mm centres (from centre to centre) between the laths.

Anyone find those "wire finder" type scanners utterly useless. I bought a Stanley one but I dont think it tells me anything reliable at all.

Hiya,

there's no comparison between timber and concrete.
From financial point, timber is much cheaper, but if you want quality and have the money, then go for concrete.

You can erect a timber frame house in a maximum of two weeks. Wood is a better heat insulator than concrete, therefore energy-efficient. But when it comes to sound....

However, concrete is the most proven building material on earth, it's certainly stronger and more durable than wood. If your home is constructed with concrete walls, you are protected from the structural damage, say fire for example. Yes, after a few years or even months timber frame houses make noise, there's rot, rust, termites etc...Today's best residential buildings in the world are made of concrete. I do not know why timber frame is so popular in Ireland today, look at the rest of the world: Italy, Germany, Austria etc...all concrete.

And after all, when it comes to soundproof; no matter what and how much material you put with the timber, it's never going to be as good as concrete.

I agree with kasko

Hi, we almost finished building a concrete house and considered going timber frame, all of the qoutes we got (without bargaining) were going to cost more than concrete block, I think it was around 25% more and the sound proofing would have been a big problem even though its inthe country, we considered that we have kids etc or should I say a kid! Also we would had to arrange a crane and all that craic ourselves

orignally posted by chrisoz5

all of the quotes we got (without bargaining) were going to cost more than concrete block, I think it was around 25% more and the sound proofing would have been a big problem even though its in the country,

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Don't know where you got your prices from! We had built a timber frame house 2 years ago - 4 bed, 1500 sq ft for 88K. House now worth in excess of 300k inc site
Timber frame is quicker, cheaper, next to no cracks - inside or out, very warm. One sound-proofing problem - shower in the en-suite, got around it by using sound- proofing plaster board and tiled straight over the top. I'm sure any builder would include this in all rooms if you asked.
Lived in concrete homes for years - wouldn't do it again.

When I say a concrete house, I also imply concrete stairs and concrete ceiling. You can have an elephant jumping upstairs and you wouldn't hear a thing downstairs.
In a timber framed house, come on, yous all know, that you can hear everything going on upstairs starting with the footsteps, you can hear every one of them. Never mind running down the stairs.

I'd say the concrete house would be even twice as expensive

an awful lot of alarmist tosh there to be honest,

rot??, termites?? giza break. Unless you've forgotten to roof it and have imported termites I dont think these are real issues. The timbers used are all treated.

If a house is gutted by fire then the house is finito, be it concrete, steel frame, timberframe, glass etc. For one off houses I'd say job #1 is to order the bulldozer.

Re internationally, timberframe could well be bigger than concrete, most of US housing is timberframe - also apparently big in Scotland & Scandanavia.

Re sound transfer - fair enough this is a bit of a drawback but one to be balanced with heat & energy efficiency. & if it bothers people that much theres rockwool for the partitions and "silent floor" type systems to block upstairs sound. Not a big deal in a detatched house.

I have been looking at timber frame V block and block is definetly coming out cheaper.I have finally decided on block ,mainly for noise reasons,four kids,but have concerns re maximising insulation.Has anyone had experiences with Poroton bricks,was it easy to get a bricky to use them?what was the cost V traditional method.?
Also it is a dormer bunglow so what is the best insulation for the roof space?

Hi Alri, there is a Key Post on Poroton blocks. If you do a search of this forum you will also find other references to them.
Leo

Compared to traditional block built, timber frame homes are engineered to the highest level of accuracy and quality (built in a controlled factory env and so no need to worry about walls that aren't straight - big problem when tiling). No need to wait for "drying out" - means your tradespeople can start immediately. They also meet and often exceed current building regulations and certainly meet and exceed all current building regulations with regard to fire also. They are ~50% more energy efficient than traditional block built which is extremely important given the new regs on building energy. With ever increasing heating costs and oil prices, this rating IMO is going to become one of the deciding factors when purchasing a new home in the very near future.

Sound proofing may have been an issue at the beginning or currently with less professional co's but the co's that KNOW what they are doing have lots of options to improve sound proofing. One of the cinemas in Cork is timber frame - a building where I'm sure you'll agree sound proofing is essential!

As for the rest of Europe building block built - ~ 70% of the population in the developed world live in timber frame homes. In North America and Scandinavia it accounts for almost 90% of the market. In Scotland - 60%.

having being involved in numerous timber frame projects I find there is a
huge difference in quality between erectors, some of them are dismally
poor as they have little experience seeing that the explosion in timber
frame is a recent phenomena. If you are in any question as to the
quality of the work ask a professional architect/engineer
WITH EXPERIENCE IN TIMBER FRAME builds to inspect the works
DURNING ERECTION.

Kasko,
Did you say that you have a concrete stairs installed in your house? I was thinking of this but wasnt sure how to make a concrete stairs look well!! Did you find it cheaper than the wood stairs?

Great to have opinions from both sides here. I'm still not convinced on the timber framing myself, and that is based on living in one at the moment - noise is terrible, run into serious problems evening putting up a shelf ( someone mentioned above making sure you were attaching to the lath directly, but this in not practical all the time - you may want a picture, shelf, TV, etc in a particular place, which is betwwen a lath). Great thing about the house is the heat, but that's really it. I'm still leaning towards block, but would love to see an actual timber frame house, out in the country, to get a real feel for it. My experience is block house are much colder and more difficult to heat, but I'm sure there have been advances in recent years to combat this.

We live in a timber frame semi and there is no noise audible from next door...the odd time we hear their toddler having a tantrum but you'd hear that in a block build too. My parents live in a block built semi and can hear next door flushing the toilet at nighttime. And I rented for a while in a block built house where we could hear next door pulling the plugs out, kettle boiling and doors opening/closing.

I think the whole noise problem is down to proper insulation and build quality regardless of whether its timber or block.

As for noise from upstairs...same as in a block built and if someone is thundering up or down the stairs they are going to make noise..regardless of build.

And as for not being able to hang presses...well 3 years later our kitchen presses are still on the wall, as are pictures, mirrors and bathroom fittings we have hung.

Well, concrete stairs as well as the concrete ceiling is a lot more expensive. That's why I said "if you have the money". Once you have the concrete stairs, you can put down parqet, and it will look better. There is no noise whatsoever, no one can convince me that the wooden stairs and timber ceiling can achieve that.

What is the source of information that 70 % of developed world live in timber framed homes? I know that's correct regarding US, however when hurricane strikes all those homes get easily blown away. Shaking sends them sliding to one side because the connection to the foundation is a weak point that gives way.

Are Italy, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Central Europe part of undeveloped world?

I agree that cinema in Cork might be timber framed and insulation used is spot on, I agree that noise can be reduced that way, but there's no way that timber can reduce noise you can hear downstairs while someone is walking upstairs!