Those outstanding Bye-Elections.....

S

shammy feen

Registered User
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65
Hi Folks,

Just want to get a feel of how other people feel about the fact that Fianna Fail are dragging their heels so much on holding the outstanding bye elections that it is bordering on undemocratic.

I know the rules allow the delay in calling them but...

It has started to really annoy me of late as it feels to me that they are not being held to suit FF and in doing so are denyin the people of those constituencies a public representative.

Shammy

p.s I am not a member of any political party and usually vote for the best candidate not along any particular party lines.
 
of course they are draging their heels..........afraid of their life what the outcome will be!
 
I think it proves that we should reduce the number of TD's.

I don't believe that these 2 Constituencies are any worse off because they have been down 1 TD for the past year.
 
I agree. That people can survive quite happily in the absence of a TD proves that they aren't really needed. There should be no more than two TDs per constituency IMHO.
 
The number of TDs is not the point - thats a different argument.

The point is that our Constitution says that "Dail Eireann shall be composed of members who represent constituencies as determined by law etc."

The current Government's actions are blatantly un-Constitutional.

There is no doubt that they will lose the Constitutional challenge that is currently going thru the courts. They will lose it based on the above and because the Constitution says that General Elections must take place within 30 days - there is no excuse for a bye-election having a longer timeframe.

Whatever about the action (of lack of actions) of the Government on this issue, what I'm most annoyed about is the stance being taken by the President. The President was elected by us to be the guardian of the Constitution. Her job exists to intervene in situations like this - going around shaking hands at functions is not her real job. She is supposed to be above party politics and should have intervened a long time ago. The silence coming from the Phoenix Park is deafening & in my opinion, she should resign.
 
csirl said:
The number of TDs is not the point - thats a different argument.

The point is that our Constitution says that "Dail Eireann shall be composed of members who represent constituencies as determined by law etc."

The current Government's actions are blatantly un-Constitutional.
Click to expand...

Our government couldnt care about the Constitution, only their pockets!
 
Complainer said:
This would cut out smaller parties, and drive political policies more and more towards the bland centre .
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I don't know. If recent polls were borne out in an election, it would be Labour and Fine Gael that would be the big winners if only 2 seats, possiblly resulting in a Labour majority government?
Although 2 per constituency is prob not enough.
 
Shawady said:
I don't know. If recent polls were borne out in an election, it would be Labour and Fine Gael that would be the big winners if only 2 seats, possiblly resulting in a Labour majority government?
Although 2 per constituency is prob not enough.
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I wasn't thinking about Labour as being a smaller party in the current environment. It may well be FF as the smallest of the three main parties next time round. But the next election will be very non-typical. In the past, the last seat in 4/5 seaters has often gone to the Green candidate, or the PD candidate, or the Labour candidate. Reducing the number of seats in our PR system will certainly push things more towards the centre.
 
We are saving the cost of three T.D.s


I cant see any great neglect going on in these constituencies without the T.D.s
 
While I don't hold any store over an area needing a TD, what the government is doing is cowardly. There should be simple rules in place to ensure that the bye-election dates are removed from the control on the governing party.

They simply don't want to hold the bye-elections prior to the budget, the numbers are (from wiki - I think they're accurate enough)

71+6+2 + random number of 11 independents or "FF" independents.
so only 79 guaranteed votes + CC

and between FG+Lab+SF (an uneasy alliance - but would unite against the budget)
51+19+4
so 74 votes

Make that 77 opposition votes after the 3 bye-elections then it's 79+1 to 77 and 11 independents. What are the chances of voting that budget through on those numbers, around zero surely - especially since some of the highly paid TDs can't be trained to push the right button.

So FF would be likely forced into a general election days after an unpopular budget. They'll brazen this out rather than take that risk.

A month or two after the budget perhaps, but by then they'll be thinking they might as well call the general election - which many expect to be at the latest Autumn next year anyway.
 
I thought the money saved by not having these 3 td's was helping, Ivor, Noel, etc.

Is it not amazing the EU can step in and tell us what water to drink but when democracy is comprised they stay stumpf!!

When I did Manpower Planning and a vacnacy was left unfilled for 12 months it was dropped ie if you can manage for 1
 
I thought the money saved by not having these 3 td's was helping, Ivor, Noel, etc.

Is it not amazing the EU can step in and tell us what water to drink but when democracy is comprised they stay stumpf!!

When I did Manpower Planning and a vacancy was left unfilled for 12 months it was dropped ie if you can manage for 12 months you dont need anybody.

noah

ps could this be the way to reduce number of TD's forever??
 
The people don't seem to be up in arms about the lack of representation so why bother replacing them. They don't appear to be needed.
 
Oops after the latest about Ivor I dont think people will even bother to vote. Whats the point? Maybe just maybe the penny will drop but the silence on the Noel Dempsey use of our money is worrying.

I ask, who was responsible for checking the validity of claims?

noah
 
QED said:
I think it proves that we should reduce the number of TD's.

I don't believe that these 2 Constituencies are any worse off because they have been down 1 TD for the past year.
Click to expand...

I agree have less TD's and have them concentrate on policy...

Complainer said:
This would cut out smaller parties, and drive political policies more and more towards the bland centre .
Click to expand...

Yorrick said:
I cant see any great neglect going on in these constituencies without the T.D.s
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At the moment the vast amount of TD's concentrate on effectively, low grade social work, we should leave this to councillor and let TD's focus on policy and legislation...If the last 15 years has thought the electorate nothing then we have had massive failures of policy....we need less running after potholes and more consideration of the formulation of policy..
 
The real disgrace is that the Govt is willing to spend a small fortune on the legal costs associated with the judicial review. I believe a typical JR in the High Court costs between €100 and €150k. Participating in such JRs on constitutional issues will require the time of the Attorney General and his staff, in addition to barristers engaged. If the State is unsuccessful, it will likely also have to pay the costs of the other side and may appeal to the Supreme Court, incurring additional costs. This money would be better spent on actually holding the bye-elections.
 
The President should be stepping in here and protecting the constitution

Article 16.2 dealing with citizens and their representation is being ignored here.

Realy, it's one of the few important tasks the President has, where is she?
 
Is it just me, but ..

.. I have never had a need to talk to any TD and I've been a voter/taxpayer for over 20 years. I've had candidates, sometimes sitting TDs, on my doorstep during an election, but I have never sought them out for whatever it is that they're meant to do for their constituents.

Why is there a queue outside their constituency offices ?
What can a TD do for you that you're not already entitled to ?

:confused:
 
TarfHead said:
Is it just me, but ..

.. I have never had a need to talk to any TD and I've been a voter/taxpayer for over 20 years. I've had candidates, sometimes sitting TDs, on my doorstep during an election, but I have never sought them out for whatever it is that they're meant to do for their constituents.

Why is there a queue outside their constituency offices ?
What can a TD do for you that you're not already entitled to ?

:confused:
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In short, the answer is nothing - in fact, in certain circumstances going through a TD can be detrimental as State bodies are very restricted in what they can discuss with third parties regarding personal issues - data protection, personal info, privacy etc. etc.

TDs have somehow perpetuated a myth that they can get someone additional benefits when the truth is that they are taking advantag of peoples ignorance and unfamiliarity with what State services are available.

In my opinion, representations from TDs to State bodies should be banned for obvious conflict of interest reasons and because it undermines democracy - can be used to buy votes. It is also inappropriate to have a member of the Oireachtas to lobby on behalf of third parties concerning legislation that the Oireachtas has passed.
 
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