Thinking of buying land

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Cornie

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Myself and my husband are currently living in a housing estate with our 2 children. We owe approx 150k on our 4bed semi-d currently worth approx 220k, lucky enough we have a tracker mortgage. Eventually we would like to move to the country and a plot of land c2 acres has come on the market in what would be our perfect location. It is been sold with no planning permission. We know the owner and he has admitted that he isn't that pushed if it sells or not. We actually asked him what he expects to get for it and he just said make an offer and he'd consider it. We would be hoping that we might get him to take it off the market while we try and sort something out financially but have absolutely no clue what sort of an offer to make as there is no guide price and nothing to compare it to in the area.
I have a permanent civil service post my husbands job is not so secure. What I'm wondering is should we be even considering such a big step in the current financial climate and would any bank even touch us with a barge poll? We owe 13k on credit cards which I'm working on at the moment, have transfered to 0% and so far have 3k knocked off, would ideally like to have these cleared before approaching bank thus the need to get property off the market for a while. Also does anyone have any idea of what sort of an offer to make, we are in the West of Ireland and the land is 6miles outside a major town?
Another thing to note is that hubby currently rents a lockup in the town for 250pm and the plan would be to put a shed on the land initiallly so that he could give up the lockup and use the rent money towards the mortgage repayment...

Thx
 
Hi Cornie, I would recommend tackling the credit card situation first and when this is solved I would then approach the landowner. I am based in the West as well, and as this land has no planning it is effectively agricultural land. My advice would be to offer between €20k and €30k but it all depends where you are located and the potential in the land.
Again would you be able to get planning for the shed on the land? If you could it would be better than paying rent. You could approach the local council to see if there is a possibility of getting a shed here prior to purchase.
 
Look up sites in that area on www.daft.ie. This might give you an idea. It will make a massive difference if it is sold with or without planning. Without planning I would say €20,000 to €30,000 for 2 acres, but you are taking a massive risk as you may end up with the land and be unable to build your house on it. With planning I would say up to €100,000 for 2 acres.
 
Regarding the shed, you should find out if it would be exempt from planning. I know a lot of agricultural sheds don't need planning if they are under a certain size and are a certain distance from a public road, houses, schools etc.
 
I reckon we would be able to get planning for a house down the road as it is adjacent to two existing houses and has road frontage. I thought 30k for agricultural land but was afraid that the owner would laugh at us and we are serious. We would both love to live in this area and its not far from our exixting house so hubby would use the land as agricultural in the short term. We have a horse that currently lives on a friends land with his horses but we would like a field of our own. Maybe we'll mention the 30k and see what he says. would we be approaching a bank for a personal loan for this kind of transaction or a mortgage, or do you think we could top up our existing mortgage or would that be too risky?
 
Put in an offer subject to full or outline planning permission been permitted. That way you would have security knowing that if it had planning then you would be happy to pay more to justify it been a 'site with full/outline planning permission.
 
If the advice being given here from other 'Westerners' is to pay between €20-30k, why are you immediately jumping to the €30k price ?

Why don't you offer €20k 'in the current climate' and all that and then at least you can see where he stands with that and potentially what he's really and realistically hoping to get.
 
Re. the credit cards. Can you not take out a loan, credit union or bank loan, and spread it out over as long a period as possible? As far as I'm aware, it's not how much you owe that the mortgage people look at, but your monthly repayments.

So for example, they'd look more favourably on a €100 per month loan over 5 years, than a €300 per month loan over 3 years
 
What makes you think the landowner is so gullible that he would consider an offer at agricultural values? From what you say, the house is alongside others and anyone looking at the site would conclude that PP for a house would be possible. Remember that councils in the west have a peculiar view on 'non locals' building houses. This might leave you in a pickle later when you look for planning.

Why not make an offer somewhere between the ag value and residential value subject to outline Planning Permission for a house and a shed? In the meantime you can work on that credit card overhang. Best of luck.

Slim
 
I agree with the last poster. Farmers will not sell land for 15K per acre unless its bog. Forestry would pay better. I'm sure he will expect nearer to 100k. It is relatively easy to ascertain if you will get planning or bid subject to planning being obtained. Lots of people like the idea of a few acres near a town, build a big house and keep a few ponies.

Unless the farmer has to sell he won't sell cheaply. He can only sell it once!
 
Hi,

I don't think you should offer anything at the moment until firstly you have preplanning meeting to see if you fulfill the local area needs. If the answer is yes to that then go to your bank to get to see can you raise the finances either through equity release - I know most banks won't lend nowadays unless there is either outline or full planning on the site. If your banks thinks you'll be able to get the money then make an offer subject to you getting your full planning. The prices you are talking about are more agricultural prices i.e. land with no road frontage - land with road frontage will command more money. The two acres - have the all road frontage or are the back to back if it is the latter it will be cheaper but if the two have substantial road frontage then it will command more. That said the prices for sites have dropped about 15% but not as much as residential property.

Best of luck in your decision.

Angela59
 
I'm sure the farmer is selling the land on the assumption that whoever purchases it intends to build a house on the site. If so forget about agricultural prices. Prices will be dictated by the properties of the site itself, location, views, quality of land, services if any, designation of area relative to planning requirements and of course current market.

A 2 acre site in my area run from €130,000 to over €300,000 depending on above but the West may be different.

Chances are though that, in the present climate, unless it is a fantastic site that it will remain on the market for a considerable time which will give you a chance to sort your own finances out. This is essential before you make any realistic offer.
 
If the land owner could get outline planning permission before he put it up for sale, he would have done so to maximise its value. It would be advisable to check a planning history on the land with the planning section of Galway County Council. And, by the way, agricultural land is not making anything near €15k an acre at the moment, more like half that. Remember it is a buyers marke despite what some of the posters would suggest. Just because it is two acres doesn't mean that it is suddenly valuable.
 
Just a few points regarding the planning potential of the land:

Check that the land is zoned for residential use or a use that would permit the building of a house - don't assume anything from the fact that there are houses nearby. There could be zoning boundary between this site and their land. This information will be in the Development Plan for the area, which you may be able to view on your local authority web-site. Alternatively, give the planning department a call and ask.

If the site is located outside a town on agricultural land, then building a new house may be restricted to local need, ie. are you from the area, do you work the land, do you have ties that require you to be in that place, etc. Again - a call to the planner should clarify.

You will also have to think about how to get services onto the land. Is there electricity near by, water supply, drainage? You will probably have to pay for all of these at some point, so it would be worth looking into the costs involved now. Drainage, in particular. If there is no public system, and it sounds unlikely from your description, you will require a septic tank or similar. These have very specific requirements that can be affected by soil type, distances to boundaries, water courses, buildings and other septic tanks. I'd recommend getting this checked out, as without a drainage system you wont be able to build at all. Also depending on the soil, you may have to go for an alternative system, which may or may not affect your decision.

Although, there is expense involved in getting services fed direct to a site, it is worthwhile. I'd avoid doing deals with neighbours etc. about accessing their water supply, drainage system etc. as you wouldn't have complete control over these resources and it could affect the value of the property should you ever decide to sell.

Bear in mind that the planning process takes a minimum of 12 weeks from submission to grant of permission, if you're making an offer subject to this. It could take much longer, if any of the neighbours object - an appeal to An Bord Pleanala will take a minimum of 18 weeks.

Finally, sounds like the seller is playing hard to get with his 'don't care if I sell or not' - a shrewd operator! Why not phone up a few local auctioneers and tell them you're thinking long-term of buying in that particular area and want to get a feel for land prices at the moment. You don't have to commit yourself and they should have a better idea of where the market value is.

You're taking the right approach - do your homework, get a feel for the market and then, if you do decide to go ahead, bear in mind that values are projected to drop a further 10% this year, so make an offer that builds in a bit of security for yourself.

Best of luck!
 
DeclanP said:
If the land owner could get outline planning permission before he put it up for sale, he would have done so to maximise its value.
Click to expand...

Most sites are sold subject to planning permission. The land owner would not normally look for planning permission him/herself nowadays particularly if the local authorities have specific criteria for granting same e.g. local need.

By all means do your homework and talk to local auctioneers and the planners. However don't go to the expense of having a site assessment done until you check with the planners and have agreed a price subject to P.P. with the landowner.

As far as I know the local authorities will not permit you to piggyback on neighbours waste treatment system etc. A waste treatment system is evaluated on, among other things, the number of people (members of household) using the system.

Take your time, do your homework. Chances are site will still be available when you are in a position to make an offer.
 
Hi,

The owner of the land can apply for outline planning permission which means that a house can be built on that particular site but full planning is different. With regards to sharing services I don't think it is that common so share septic tanks and wells etc.

Angela59
 
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