The three amigos

Hi NatChessmen,

Finally I asked him (nobody expected the Spanish inquisition) if he saw any difference between a US or UK mercenary and these folks and he said absolutely not, what else would an out of work solder do.
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Very interesting commentary from your Colombian friend.

I made the point earlier about what happens foreign mercenaries (consultants, advisors etc) in Civil War situations. Do they get shot? are they treated as POW's? are they treated as spies and exchanged? are they tried and convicted under the civil law? or are they tried and conviced under martial law? Im sure it depends on the particular confict but just pose the question to throw some light on the predicament of the Three.

ajapale
 
Yet you expect leniency for 3 others who are charged with passport offences in the US?
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If you spent more time reading and less time writing you might have read:

I'm not saying the US is wrong to keep them in Jail

I didn't ask for anything for these guys, I asked why SF are so interested in Terrorists travelling on false passports and not interested at all in these guys who appear to have committed a far less serious offence.

Remember SF have been trying to "Bring Them Home" since BEFORE there was even a trial. It didn't matter if they were guilty or not, they were republicans and so should not be locked up.

You just discredit your own argument by patent double standards.
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Well this from a Pro-SF person is high praise indeed. I think you'll find the only inconsistency in my post is that you read the bits you want and ignore the rest.

So which is it Dalton? It holds no water/Its a success? Which?
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Irish Peace Process is a Success.
Story about observing Columbian Peace Process holds no water. Do you need diagrams?

the twisted logic of someone like Daltonr, whose prejudice is so deep he leaps in with a lie to publicly defend Islamic terrorists caught red handed in Afghanistan, but condemns outright an Irishman arrested for passport offenses - but only if he is related to SF or Republicans (if not then he should be let go).
Its all bare faced HYPOCRISY.
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I haven't defended Islamic Terrorists, or demanded that ANYONE be let go. There are vast differences between the Cuba situation and the Columbian situation. Not least the fact that the Columbian Convicts were able to speak to lawyers from the start. I don't object to the US detaining people who area threat to them. I have reservations about word games to avoid Geneva Conventions obligations. But we digress (I know that was your point).

or has politicians with such personal integrity
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Oh dear. :rolleyes
I know you quoted Alice in Wonderland earlier, but I didn't think you actually lived there.

If you could start reading my posts and responding to what I actually say instead of what you wish I'd said that would be nice. Otherwise this thread is going nowhere.

-Rd
 
Asimov is getting us Northerners a bad name!

What he meant about Shinners being folk of integrity is that they are against things like the Nice Treaty, the Shannon stop-over, tax breaks for the wealthy etc. etc. They also rail against political style corruption, Southern fried style ala Rambo. And they're real big against drug pushers.

He didn't mean they were against wholesome activity such as extortion, counterfeiting, smuggling, vigilanti-ism.
 
I haven't defended Islamic Terrorists, or demanded that ANYONE be let go. There are vast differences between the Cuba situation and the Columbian situation. Not least the fact that the Columbian Convicts were able to speak to lawyers from the start. I don't object to the US detaining people who area threat to them. I have reservations about word games to avoid Geneva Conventions obligations. But we digress (I know that was your point).
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No, the point was not to digress...thats piggys job (thats why you're still on the ignore list piggy).

The point was to demonstrate that you have a contradictory mindset on the two situations. They are highly analagous, yet you continue to seek trivial excuses to differentiate between them.

If a truly innocent Afghani is dragged off around the world to Guantanamo and slammed into a prison cell in Cuba, I doubt very much if it is any consolation to him that an American Army lawyer who speaks no Afghan is there to greet him.
Irrelevance.

The principle of "summary justice without trial" is what is important here, and you have advocated it numerous times in respect of the Colombia 3 (they had to be up to something...so hang 'em).

You must therefore support the principle as it pertains to Guantanamo also.

Or not...depending on the weather, eh?

By the way...its COLOMBIA, not Columbia.
Strange that natchesman can't spell it right either, in spite of his mate being from there.

extortion, counterfeiting, smuggling,vigilanti-ism.
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I'd like to see your evidence that Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness are involved in any of the above. Or any other of the more usual southern politicians traditional money spinners, such as Bribe Taking, Back Scratching, Planning Irregularities, Cronyism, Fraud, Deception...etc etc etc...
Its one thing about northern politics...I can even defend Paisley as unblemished in that respect...corruption in politics is a STRICTLY southern Irish phenomenon.
 
No, the point was not to digress...thats piggys job (you're still on the ignore list piggy).

Great stuff Asimov. Remember - a promise is a promise.

You can stop talking about me now so and get back to lambasting daltonr's perfectly reasonable and wholly understandable point of view.
 
Asimov, you've failed to address the fact that The Colombia Convicts had SF working to bring them home Before They went on Trial.

If you want to talk about people caring about Guilt Or Innocence could you explain why SF are so eager to get people out of Jail regardless of Guilt or Innocence, indeed as I pointed out earlier, the more guilty you are the more likely you are to have SF backing.

As for you insisting on connecting the Colombia Convicts to those in Cuba. Of course there are similarities, yes there are concerns about BOTH Colombia's justice system, and the system by which those in Cuba are being detained.

BUT. From what I've seen the 3 in Colombia have been treated far more fairly. They got a trial, were released with time served for the crime they were found guilty of, while the other verdict was being appealed, and they jumped bail.

They were treated as prisoners. There's no evidence they they were mistreated, subject to sleep deprivation, hooded etc.

If you insist on focusing in on Cuba to avoid discussing the substantive issue then fine.

Let me try once and for all to clear this up. If the 3 gentlement in question had been dumped into Guantanamo, I'd be as sympathetic of their situation as I am of anyone else in that place.

But they're not in Guantanamo, their rights under the Geneva Conventions have not been removed by word games. They are criminals arrested in Cuba who have been found guilty of one crime which they admit.

The verdict on the more serious charge has been overturned in a questionable fashion. I happen to believe they are guilty of the more serious charge, becase their story makes no sense. I share that opinion with virtually everybody in this country. But what matters is Columbia's legal system, and if that system is as Bad as SF seem have always known it was then what the hell were these men doing there on False passports?

Do you want to know why the whole country won't belive their story? It's a simple boy who called wolf situation.
We've been listening to SF lies equivocation for so long that everything they say is now questionable.

1. There's no link between SF and the IRA.
2. Being a criminal is inconsistent with being a republican.
3. SF has no involvement in vigilante activity.

And finally not to burst your bubble of fantasy about the fantastic honest and incorruptable politicians in SF, but they're as corrupt as any other party in the dail, and more corrupt than most. We can talk about social welfare fraud for starters.

The only problem for SF is they've been kept far enough away from power to let their corruption bear real fruits. Long may it continue.

-Rd
 
The losers in all of this Shambles are
(A) The people of Columbia, who have suffered over 400 deaths at the hands of FARC terrorists since they were trained in IRA techniques by the 3 Amigos. FARC are now much more efficient at killing.

and to a lesser extent
(B) Our ( the Irish peoples ) reputation in the world. I have often been in counties in various corners of the world, and as soon as people ask where am I from , I no sooner mention I am from Ireland than the person says " ah, IRA ". Perhaps it is a bit like linking Columbians with the Cocaine trade, even though only a minority of Columbinians are involved in this, and they are mostly in the FARC controlled areas. The government of Columbia is desperately trying to cut down on this FARC controlled activity. The US are helping them to do this as much of the drugs end up in the States, and the money in FARC pockets.
 
Daltonr I'm rapidly growing sick of repeating myself to you.
You just go round in bloody circles ad infinitum.
Its like banging my head off a brick wall. A pointless waste of time.

I'll tell you what, I've had enough, I've better things to do with my time...you believe what you choose to, and I'll believe what I choose to.
And never the twain shall meet. Happy?

Just get this though...you can rant all day and night about SF, but people are voting for them in droves. Its not rocket science to see why... the voters see a party with politics at the forefront, not the usual money grubbing and feather bedding.

I'm glad that there is one party in this rotten land that is prepared to stick its neck out for people. I look forward to seeing Gerry Adams as Taiseoach of a United Ireland one day.
He'd be brilliant. Can't wait.
Tiocfaidh Ar La.
See ya.
 
This topic has run its course.

Nollaig shona daoibh go leir!

ajapale
 
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