The three amigos

Can someone tell me what the three bhoys in Columbia claimed they were doing there at the time. All I hear about is how crap the Columbian justice system is and very little about these three clients.

According to today's Indo

"The trio maintained they had come "to get to know the people, the natural beauty" of Colombia and to observe its now-defunct peace process with the FARC."

"They said they travelled on false passports because of alleged past persecution for their involvement in the Troubles."

Ya right!

Having taking early retirement (on generous terms) from their previous employment the three embarked on a new career in 'overseas consultancy' in Latin America.

ajapale

Natchessmen, sadmak & ajapale: It doesn't matter what you think you know about these people. Would you agree that they are entitled to a fair trial? Also would you be happy to be tried under the Columbian justice system?

But they admit they travelled on false passports. I wouldn't chance trekking in Columbia at the best of times but even if I did, I'd make sure I'd everything in order before I went.

If you're worried about the penal system in Columbia, join Amnesty or something and try and fix it for the millions of Columbians that have no choice but to live under it. But don't sweat it over three chancers that (at the very least!) should have known better than to enter a country like Columbia and used false ID of their own free will.

Rebecca

Indeed Rebecca. Are people (ever people you may have disdain for) entitled to a fair trial? You may think they got what they deserved but do you believe that these three Irish citizens got a fair trail?

Mary White of Fianna Fail nearly broke down on the news last night saying that of all the time she was there she didnt see one shred of evidence that they were guilty of the main charge of training the FARC guerillas! She has to be commended for her approach! I was surprised to find out that she was a member of FF. Looks like they're not all bad!
They should have been given their sentences for travelling with false passports and let go as i think they've served that time already! Its pure politics at this stage! Whats the bets that this will be used by the goverment as a smokescreen for ignoring the Castlerea issue??
At the end of the day they deserve a fair trial no matter what they were up to! Thats part of the basis of a fair and just democratic legal system!

...

Whats wrong with the Columbian judicial system?

Re: ...

I wonder what would have happened if three Serb militiamen (two of them with criminal records for serious terrorist offences, the other a paid employee of Radovan Karadzic) had been found "studying the peace process" at or near a UDA or UVF training camp in rural Antrim a decade or so a ago? I wonder how Sinn Fein would have reacted?

It made me sick this morning to hear Sinn Fein's Catriona Ruane compare the Columbia Three to the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four. The comparison between the likes of Gerry and the late Guiseppe Conlon with the likes of Mortar Monaghan is odious to say the least.

It made me laugh to hear her complain about the arbitrary nature of Columbian justice. Given the SFIRA fondness for, er, "community" courts over the years, she must be an expert on jurisprudence. As must be the convicted kangaroo court judge Danny Morrison who will surely be rehashing the same script on the Last Word anytime soon.

Observation 1.
There are scores of former British Army Officers providing 'consultancy', 'security' and arms dealing services around the world's hot spots. In years gone by these would have been know as 'mercenaries' and dealt with as such.

Observation 2.

Scores of Irish took part in the Spanish Civil War on both sides. How were foreign combatants and observers dealt with in that conflict?

ajapale

Interesting points

Observation 1.
There are scores of former British Army Officers providing 'consultancy', 'security' and arms dealing services around the world's hot spots. In years gone by these would have been know as 'mercenaries' and dealt with as such.

I think the ratio of ex British Forces people who turn freelance is considerably less than the ratio of Sinn Fein / IRA, and whatever British mercenaries there were / are do so for their own gain, not their ex-employers gain. Ex British Army Officers would not generally help a terrorist organisation like FARC, or travel there on false passports etc. When they are caught, their P.M. ( or Mary White ) does not protest their innocence!

Observation 2.

Scores of Irish took part in the Spanish Civil War on both sides. How were foreign combatants and observers dealt with in that conflict?

Too long ago, but if three IRA men were caught teaching ETA how to make more effective bombs , do you think the Spanish Govt. would let them off ?

I think the ratio of ex British Forces people who turn freelance is considerably less than the ratio of Sinn Fein / IRA, and whatever British mercenaries there were / are do so for their own gain, not their ex-employers gain.

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Its not a zero sum game.

Ex British Army Officers would not generally help a terrorist organisation like FARC, or travel there on false passports etc. When they are caught, their P.M. ( or Mary White ) does not protest their innocence!

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:lol :lol What about the recent foiled coup attempt in Africa...not just british soldiers involved, but even an ex prime ministers son! :lol

Too long ago, but if three IRA men were caught teaching ETA how to make more effective bombs , do you think the Spanish Govt. would let them off ?

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A lower court heard the case 6 months ago and pronounced these guys 'not guilty'. The judge then accused two of the witnesses for the prosecution of perjury and threatened prosecution.
In the interim...and without any other court hearing...another group of senior Columbian judges just reversed the not guilty verdict...and sentences the men to 17 years?
The whole thing stinks. I hope those guys have legged it.

Quote: What about the recent foiled coup attempt in Africa...not just british soldiers involved, but even an ex prime ministers son!


I do not defend the coup attempt in some corrupt third world African country. Most of the soldiers involved were black Africans, but they and the few British people involved were mercenaries, they knew the risks and they are paying the consequences. Between their action and now, they have not helped FARC to blow up 400 people, unlike the three amigos.

The 3 amigos were on bail in Columbia, were they not. If they have " legged it " as you say , it is just another pointer to show the IRA cannot be trusted. The Columbian Government takes terrorism and drug trafficing seriously. The FARC are involved in both in a massive scale. The civilians whose legs were blown off by FARC , Asimov, would they like to hear you defending the FARC, or even knowing you came from the same country that sent these three explosives experts / trainers? What would you think of Columbia if three Columbians, members of a well known political party there, came over here to train our drug barons ?

No wonder many people around the world have applauded and commended the sentences these three amigos got.

I do not defend the coup attempt in some corrupt third world African country.

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Interesting qualifier on the end of that sentence. Would you be OK with it anywhere else? Please clarify.

...the few British people involved were mercenaries...they knew the risks and they are paying the consequences.

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Yes indeed, bully for them...but it is totally irrelevant if british mercenaries are big boys who can take their medicine...what is relevant is the fact is they were plotting an armed attack against a sovereign state. The fact that they do it for money rather than any principle is nothing to boast about either.

Between their action and now, they have not helped FARC to blow up 400 people, unlike the three amigos.

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Actually you're wrong yet again. The Mercenary Agency involved in the coup plot is named 'Sandline'. They're famous for having been involved in every dirty little war in Africa for years and they've made fortunes from the death they deal. Just as an example, in Liberia Charles Taylor started his rebellion on Christmas Eve in 1989, he crossed into Liberia from Ivory Coast with a group of about 100 fighters. Around 1991 the number increased to thousands of fighters. Taylor employed mercenaries from companies like Sandline. Private securities from Libya and Burkina Faso were also employed to train his National Patriotic Front of Liberia (NPFL) rebels.
Taylor's war left approximately 200,000 people dead, about 65 percent of Liberia's population of 2.8 million displaced.

Interestingly enough, among his employees was one Tim Spicer, a former Lieutenant Colonel of the Scots Guard, he was the commander in Belfast of two soldiers convicted in 1992 of the murder of an unarmed 18-year-old Catholic youth named Peter McBride. To this day, Spicer defends the reputations of the convicted killers and of the unit, which had a name for torture in Northern Ireland.
Spicer is now head of another Mercenary Agency called Aegis Defence Services. Aegis has just been awarded a US $293 million Pentagon contract to coordinate "security" in Iraq!

Plenty of dirt to spread around, isn't there Rabbit.
[broken link removed]

...would they like to hear you defending the FARC....What would you think of Columbia if three Columbians, members of a well known political party there, came over here to train our drug barons?

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A Columbian could at least stand a chance of a fair trial over here...the Columbian justice system has demonstrated no such predeliction.

Heard Mary Lou giving the usual spin about Columbian Justice system on Today FM this monring. She must have warned Sam Smyth on about five occassions "to be very carfeul there Sam"......... Sounds to me like they really haven't gone away!

Ah but Mary Lou explained the simple reason for them to be travelling on false passports. Given their prior convictions, they wouldn't have been let into Colombia on their real passports, so it's quite logical & sensible that they would use false passports - right? :rolleyes

What type of passport does Col.Tim Spicer travel on?

If your only problem is with their paperwork then there isn't much of a problem. Time served should be sufficient in my view.

They were found innocent of all charges by the Colombian lower court.

As someone else already said...the whole thing smells like a political show trial staged by the Columbian authorities to bolster international support.

..and what exactly were those British Service Men up to in Mexico earlier this year.. Their explanations were as plausable as our "three amigos".

Quote:
I do not defend the coup attempt in some corrupt third world African country.
Interesting qualifier on the end of that sentence. Would you be OK with it anywhere else? Please clarify.
I do not defend any coup attempt. Happy now Asimov?

The fact that (Sandline) do it for money rather than any principle is nothing to boast about either.
I did not boast about any mercenaries... and if you take the trouble to do comprehensive research on Sandline, who incidentally have now closed down operations, you will see that their stated primary motivation was humanitarian , to displace evil, corrupt and sometimes genocidal third world regimes.


Plenty of dirt to spread around, isn't there Rabbit.
Brits are up to their necks in it all over the globe.

Talk about a generalization. Just because you have read of a few British security advisor's / mercenaries, does not necessarily mean "Brits are up to their necks in it all over the globe" as much as us Irish.

The main point is the three Sinn Fein / IRA men, who had convictions for, and experience in , explosives, turning up in FARC areas birdwatching , on false passports, and from then on all FARC terrorist activity and bombs bearing an exact resemblance to IRA methods? Ah, but the three gringos were innocent....yeah, sure, tell that to the thousands of widows, orphans and victims of the FARC terrorists / drug barons.

I think that the 3 provo's were guilty of training terrorists and should have spent another 10 years or so in prison. However they were found not guilty in an open court and a system that can reverse that verdict in a closed upper court must be open to criticism.
I also think that the moral indignation by the British rings it's usual hollow tone. No offense intended here rabbit but to say that the mercenary armies that the British used to protect their interests in their former colonies were there mainly to "humanitarian , to displace evil, corrupt and sometimes genocidal third world regimes." lacks credibility.
When they sent the Scots into Aidan in the 50's and they murdered and maimed rings around themselves that was to "fight terrorism". These are the same fuckers who, along with the CIA, overthrew most of the best and brightest fledgling democracies in Africa in the 50's and 60's and plunged the lives of tens of millions of ordinary people into 50 years of darkness.

Ah, but the three gringos were innocent....yeah, sure, tell that to the thousands of widows, orphans and victims of the FARC terrorists / drug barons.

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I would shed no tears for these men but they are the bad guys, to ignore the rule of law and due process is to sink to their level. having said that, hearing the shinners talking about law and justice is a joke.