The state should be focussed on building new houses, not buying existing houses

[Leper]

I don’t care who houses whom. The state needs houses. Whether it’s existing houses or new builds it doesn’t matter. I wish the relevant authorities would buy more houses.

 

[odyssey06]

I wouldn't be into that as an apartment dweller, any more than house dwellers should be expected to share communal space involuntarily with strangers.

You are already sharing communal stairs, corridors, grounds, lifts involuntarily with strangers etc that is communal space in an apartment.
Many house dwellers have shared communal space eg common greens.

I think you misunderstand me perhaps you are thinking of co-living complexes where there are shared kitchen facilities etc. I think they only have a limited role eg student accommodation.

I am talking about fully self contained apartments, but where creative use is made of communal space - look at storage lockers, sheds reserved for each resident making use of garden space or other parts of the building such as attic.

 

[odyssey06]

I don’t care who houses whom. The state needs houses. Whether it’s existing houses or new builds it doesn’t matter. I wish the relevant authorities would buy more houses.

You should. If the state uses its funds and powers to get more houses built that's an increase in the overall housing stock of the country. Instead of chasing the same assets with its funds thereby increasing the cost for everyone.

 

[wondering]

You are already sharing communal stairs, corridors, grounds, lifts involuntarily with strangers etc that is communal space in an apartment.
Many house dwellers have shared communal space eg common greens.

I think you misunderstand me perhaps you are thinking of co-living complexes where there are shared kitchen facilities etc. I think they only have a limited role eg student accommodation.

I am talking about fully self contained apartments, but where creative use is made of communal space - look at storage lockers, sheds reserved for each resident making use of garden space or other parts of the building such as attic.

Well there is a point there in that some people put stuff in corridors, like bikes, that should be in some kind of separate storage.

Yes I misunderstood, I thought you meant shared living spaces.

I take your point that space should be used creatively, however in the context of the discussion, is maximising every inch of space the priority? We don't have a high population density in Ireland. It would not be good to want to change this too much either. Going high-rise for example would not be good.

I don't see why normal building can't be done, with minimum creativity(no need for new designs, architects etc - too costly) - basic, functional, old-fashioned units that are built well.

 

[Mocame]

I wouldn't be into that as an apartment dweller, any more than house dwellers should be expected to share communal space involuntarily with strangers.

I think it depends on what the communal spaces are. I don't understand why Irish apartment blocks rarely have storage lock ups in the basements where residents can store suitcases, Christmas decorations and other rarely used items that most people in houses keep in the attic. Or communal laundry rooms - a washing machine takes up a pile of room in a kitchen and for small households might only be used once or twice a week.

I have visited social housing apartment schemes in Austria where there are wonderful communal facilities like these and rooms for meetings and parties.

The problem in Ireland is that rents for social housing are too low to enable councils properly manage facilities like these or even to maintain their dwellings. This is why they over spec the dwellings they commission at construction stage Because central government is paying the bill for building councils have no incentive to control costs. In fact they have the opposite incentive - if they include really expensive components it might cut their maintenance bill in future.

But getting back to the topic of the thread - I agree that councils should be building houses rather than buying them. In particular buying existing houses off small landlords is a really inefficient way to increase the council housing stock because it doesn't add to supply and means councils have a scattered difficult to maintain stock. However additional council housing is not a cheaper option (when you properly account for all costs) and the council sector is deeply inefficent and urgently in need of reform.

 

[Purple]

The problem is that the State is corrupt - not incompetent per se.

Nonsense. We have one of the least corrupt public administrations on the world.

Look for example at how fast they got things done March 2020 in response to covid - stark contrast to how they respond to actual crisis.

Yes, because they were two completely different and totally incomparable things.

The housing crisis was first declared around a decade ago (2014 I think).

Calling a problem a crisis doesn't change anything. It's just shrill hyperbole.

 

[Purple]

On both points, this shouldn't influence Ireland.

I'm afraid that reality does influence Ireland as well.

I don't think aspirational-based has ever been much of an issue when it comes to housing - that happens more with vanity projects like the new hospital where money apparently is no object.

Yes, hospitals are vanity projects...

The post was not about 'everyone', it was about the ability of the state to afford to build to minimum standards, the answer being yes, they have plenty.
The issue is with how funds are allocated. Housing has not been prioritised.

We need to build €10- €12 billion worth of homes a year. The State doesn't have the money, people or infrastructure to do that at present.
In the first few decades of the State housing was prioritised above everything else, possibly with the exceptions of pensions. It was a disastrous policy. It contributed strongly to decades of poverty and mass emigration. It was only when we shifted to investing in our own people through health and education that we became a prosperous country.

The solution to working people not being able to afford housing it not to provide it for them. That's just a stopgap. The solution is to make housing affordable on the open market. That requires things like property tax and, internationally, not printing vast amounts of money.
The State providing things for people which they should be able to provide for themselves just makes everyone poorer.

 

[cremeegg]

I can’t think of one.

Which social housing?

I would suggest the Montrose campus of UCD as an excellent state built construction.

Nearly any council estate on the edge of a city, Cabra I think, I'm not very familiar with Dublin.

 

[odyssey06]

I would suggest the Montrose campus of UCD as an excellent state built construction.

Nearly any council estate on the edge of a city, Cabra I think, I'm not very familiar with Dublin.

How about ones built in the current generation?

Also re: the likes of Raheny, Cabra, Marino iirc they were affordable housing purchase schemes, ringed by private homes. Rather than owned by the council to rent \ assigned to council list.

In Marino, the houses on the surrounds of the estate along its artery roads were larger, semi detached and sold by the private developer. This contributed to the mix \ character of the estates as they evolved.

 

[Harfang]

On a holiday a few years ago , Shannon area , Leitrim , Roscommon, I could not help but notice. A ghost estate, I think that was near Drumshambo . Post offices shut , pubs shut, petrol stations shut, banks shut. Many areas dying. Depressing.
Do we really have a housing shortage? Is it more accurate to say we have a housing crisis in greater Dublin area? Is this a failure of govt. to support rural sustainment / development resulting in so many people needing to move the city ?

 

[T McGibney]

On a holiday a few years ago , Shannon area , Leitrim , Roscommon, I could not help but notice. A ghost estate, I think that was near Drumshambo . Post offices shut , pubs shut, petrol stations shut, banks shut. Many areas dying. Depressing.
Do we really have a housing shortage? Is it more accurate to say we have a housing crisis in greater Dublin area? Is this a failure of govt. to support rural sustainment / development resulting in so many people needing to move the city ?

I was in Drumshanbo within the last week. I'm almost certain there are no ghost estates there. Are you sure you're not confusing one of the holiday cottage developments around there as a ghost estate?

 

[Harfang]

I was in Drumshanbo within the last week. I'm almost certain there are no ghost estates there. Are you sure you're not confusing one of the holiday cottage developments around there as a ghost estate?

It was a 3-4 years ago. You know the outdoor pool. Close to acres lake. It was waking in to the town from there.on the left hand side as you walked in to town.

 

[fistophobia]

its a boomtown these days. The distillery has brought a lot of tourists to the town.
no cheap property anymore.

 

[T McGibney]

its a boomtown these days. The distillery has brought a lot of tourists to the town.
no cheap property anymore.

That was the impression I got. The town looks well spruced up and seems to be going well

 

[Harfang]

Perhaps it’s like that morecambe and wise sketch. We have the right number of houses but not necessarily in the right places (or ownership)?

“I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order'