Key Post The Single Public Service Pension Scheme

Hi I’m thinking of taking up a Clerical Officer post. I have just turned 57, I’m trying to figure out what kind of pension I might end up with. I’ve been reading up on it and it seems twice the State pension is deducted from the civil service pension. I have about 38 years full PRSI A stamps. I’m trying get a ball park figure of what the civil service pension might be. Say I don’t get promoted, I work for another 10 years and end up on say €40k. I’ve tried to figure it out. I won’t have 40 years service which would be a pension of 50% of salary, I’ll only have 10 years, so 25% of 50% = 12.5% of 40k which is €5,000 then you double that to €10k and subtract from the state pension which is €15,100. Do I get an additional €5,100 ?. I have a private pension which I could access and buy years. I don’t know if I’m working this out correctly… thanks for any advice
 
For new entrants pension is calculated on "career average" not final salary so it would not be 40k in your example.
The new pension is really not a great deal especially for low earners, or those who spend a long time at lower grades before progressing
 
I'm impressed you have so many PRSI stamps at your age!

If you are in the Single Pension Scheme you can use the Estimator Tool to estimate how much your annual pension benefits might be at the normal retirement age (currently 66). If you aren't making AVCs you probably should be, but your tax band might change that strategy.

There is a difference of opinion on whether buying back years is a good idea because it is so expensive. You could use cash or a pension fund to do that. Starting another AVC fund for your new employment you would give you more options at retirement, e.g: buy back years right before you retire.... or else just transfer it (your private pensions) in to an ARF.

You would get better all round advice by making a post in the Money Makeover forum.
 
Debs111 said:
Hi I’m thinking of taking up a Clerical Officer post. I have just turned 57, I’m trying to figure out what kind of pension I might end up with. I’ve been reading up on it and it seems twice the State pension is deducted from the civil service pension. I have about 38 years full PRSI A stamps. I’m trying get a ball park figure of what the civil service pension might be. Say I don’t get promoted, I work for another 10 years and end up on say €40k. I’ve tried to figure it out. I won’t have 40 years service which would be a pension of 50% of salary, I’ll only have 10 years, so 25% of 50% = 12.5% of 40k which is €5,000 then you double that to €10k and subtract from the state pension which is €15,100. Do I get an additional €5,100 ?. I have a private pension which I could access and buy years. I don’t know if I’m working this out correctly… thanks for any advice
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Your calculations are entirely wrong.
  • If you remain a CO and retire with 10 years service your annual pension will be around €2,200 and your lump sum will be around €14,000.
  • You can't buy service in the Single Scheme. You can
    • Buy lump sum benefits- you get out what you put in adjusted for inflation, so the only benefit is tax relief on the purchase
    • Buy an index linked annuity- the purchase price is actuarily calculated so again you get out what you put in and the only real benefit is the tax relief on the contribution
  • You'll be paying class A PRSI which will be used to calculate your COAP in due course.
Nobody who expects to either spend less than 30 years in the public service (less in the Gardai or DF as they're fast accrual) or who wants to retire early should expect to be able to rely on the Single Scheme to keep their standard of living post-retirement anywhere near where it is pre-retirement. It's not nothing, but it's not a whole lot either. And it bears no resemblance to any of the pre-2013 Schemes.
 
CharlieMac said:
What's the difference? The SPS Purchase and Transfer facility lets you "buy back" to increase your SPS pension in retirement?
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Pre-2013 schemes are based on final salary and length of service and the future benefit will vary depending on your grade and time at that grade when you retire.

Purchases from the Single Scheme is strictly money in=money out. You're not buying service, you're basically just buying an annuity.

Single Scheme purchases are also strictly by lump sum rather than salary deduction (with tax relief applied) which effectively eliminates them as a practical option for most people.
 
This thread is not to be used to open up a third front on the Secretaries Campaign. That is covered in Letting off Steam.
 
might be leaving this a little close to the cut off... but i could never get an answer from providers relating to non-pensionable overtime and how that ties into AVC allowances.

can anybody say definitively if my allowed % from revenue is based on my earnings or base salary? i've heard both. just trying to get a few last minute refunds

edit: i'm post 2013 if that makes a difference
 
i hope it's okay to double post here, if not apologies in advance. i read this thread about 10 times trying to get a better understanding of the single scheme

this comment isn't in response to anyone in particular, but just some of my ramblings and what i've done over the last few weeks to try and piece together what i would be entitled to on the post 2013 single scheme

i see a lot of people refer to the SFT for public sector / civil service workers. my understanding is that's generally irrelevant for most workers as their maximum value based on revenue's chapter 5 pensions manual (why is this so much lower than the SFT?)

apart from looking at my annual benefit statements, guessing that the top rate of my grade increases about 2% per year (??), trying to guess how much the CSP increases (???) and also general uncertainty about how much my AVC can grow, how the hell am i supposed to have any idea what i can contribute to an AVC long term? my very rough calculation is i'll have to stop contributing to AVCs in 10 years and the only hedge is through perpetual promotion

and this doesn't even factor in that my partner just started on the scheme and i did my calculations on AVC shortfalls on the basis that i'm married without considering that could be a factor

i could just be very stupid but i feel like the single scheme is more of a black hole than when i knew nothing about it. how is anyone here calculating their short fall? how impacted is it if a couple are on the single scheme?

i feel like i'd have to hire someone who is an expert on the single scheme for advice and not even sure where to look!
 
@Dave Vanian

of course. but my total AVC pot can't exceed the revenue chapter 5 pension manual limit minus the capitalised value of the single scheme

i could be understanding this wrong but as best i can tell, if my AVC gets too big i'll be forced into a position to retire early and eat the actuarial reduction otherwise i'll lose any excess from the total value

i don't have the numbers on front of me but one calculation was i can't have an AVC of over 300k. it's also possible i don't understand how to apply the capitalistion factors...

also not sure the 0.66x revenue limit applies to the 3 year average final salary or the single scheme average salary.
 
@daenaethra I feel the exact same way! I joined the public sector in my twenties and I’ve been diligently contributing to an AVC-PRSA but the thought that I might overfund it makes me nervous. And there is seemingly no way to figure out the capitalised value since as you said we don’t know how much our AVC pots or our salaries will grow. I wish the limits were applied on the money going into the pot (e.g. can only contribute 20% “in total”, not just “tax-free”) and not on the money coming out.
 
@Fortune

thanks for that clarification. i'll have to dig more into that because obviously that's a huge change for single scheme people. in effect people can fund for pre 2013-like defined benefit annuities?

@qwerty-2023

it seems like what fortune is saying is we can fund for a ~0.66 final salary pension giving much more scope for AVCs. effectively we can assume the inflation adjusted final increment is our final salary and decide a capitalisation figure based on that higher number. doesn't help that we don't know how much the AVC will grow but it's a bigger number...

i had to use a calculator to figure out what 1000 euro salary was worth based on their figures because they just give salaries or 25, 50 and 100. i think and the capitalisation seems to just scale linearly...
 

AVC information for pre 95 Public Sector employees.

Can these employees make AVCs ? Yes. They can make AVCs based on non pensionable wage payments and to make up for any shortfall if they don't have the full 40 years service at retirement age. They can also make AVCs to fund for the revenue allowed 100% surviving spouses pension. The public...
www.askaboutmoney.com

In the calculation example in post #1 of the linked thread.

Revenue maximum benefits will be your highest revenue allowable final remuneration.

Scheme benefits will be 50% of the salary used for your public sector scheme pension calculation minus the amount of state contributory pension included in your awarded public sector pension.
 
@S class thanks for that. i'll read it a few times and most likely post there.

i can't tell if i'm being unreasonable or maybe the schemes are just quite complicated for lay people but there has to be a more straightforward way of communicating this stuff. i can say from speaking with colleagues that anyone post 2013 hasn't a clue
 
I'm 42 now and been on the single public service pension scheme since 2018. I'm brutal when it comes to all this stuff and starting to realise that come retirement age I'm going to have very little. I don't even know what I've paid to date. I've no private pension or even understand them. Should I be looking at setting up an avc.
 
Coys84 said:
I don't even know what I've paid to date.
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How much you contribute to the SPSPS is not directly relevant.

Do you receive an annual statement from the SPSPS?

Have you estimated your future pension benefits?

Why do you say that you will have very little?
 
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