The Hungarian Economy and Property Investment.

Only MKB Bank has said that it will not offer any new FX mortgages. As of now at least, all of the other banks continue to offer these products. I'm currently in the process of re-financing some of my properties in Hungary and have gotten several offers this week of EUR mortgages. I'd imagine that regulations on the withdrawal of FX loans are now tighter than before and e.g. Volksbank has stated that they will be stricter in the future with CHF loans, but it's simply not true to say that HU banks are no longer lending in foreign currency loans.

Hungarian banks are having severe difficulties in funding themselves
Banks all over the world are having liquidity problems. Relatively speaking, Hungary is a stable position. It's also the case that in around four years' time, Hungary will be using the Euro, so all existing FX mortgages are likely to be converted to EUR at that time. As long as (the 80% foreign-owned banks) can fund their short-term FX borrowings until then, they will be able to get over this hump. I don't imagine that credit growth will be high during this intervening period as even with FX mortgages, the terms of take-up are strongly in favour of the lender. The major risk is if the HUF loses more than 25% of its current value, which seems unlikely.

The IMF loan only serves to emphasise how the Hungarian authorities had painted themselves into a corner. The intervention of the IMF is not really good news no matter how hard you spin it.
This is simply inaccurate. When you live here and speak regularly with various groups of local economic analysts, you get a totally different picture than the largely inaccurate accounts in the foreign press.

If Hungary decides not to accept the IMF loan, the country can still use it as a tool to make tougher decisions that otherwise would have been politically difficult. There has already been a public-sector wage freeze and a scrapping of 13th-month payments in 2009. Further tightening, particularly of the tax, educational and social welfare systems, would help things too, but Hungary is already well on its way to meeting all of the ERM2 criteria within two years. This would have seemed impossible two years ago!

I have no huge respect for Gyurcsany and his 'policies', but the authorities have certainly not 'painted themselves into a corner'. The reality is that since 2006, the Hungarian economy has come back from the brink of disaster, with stringent economic policies, which have proven to be extremely successful by any standard. The current budget deficit is 3.4% for this year. The downside is that these tough measures have had an expected side effect on GDP growth and local consumer confidence, which is not good at the moment. This situation won't change overnight and Hungarians will undoubtedly experience a few more difficult years.

If HU does accept the IMF loan, then the Euro-adoption date will be sooner than if it doesn't. This will transform the financing situation for local consumers and businesses. However, accepting the loan will possibly create further long-term problems for Hungary. What the country really needs to do, but has not been able to deal with so far, is to reform the key areas mentioned above and enter the Eurozone on a firmer footing.

Two weeks ago, when everyone was unrealistically worrying about Hungary becoming the next Iceland, I converted another chunk of EUR to HUF at an exchange rate of 282. (It could of course fall again, but for now, it's at 255). I'm also in the process of more than doubling my current financial commitment to Hungary over the course of the coming year, as real opportunities are available for locals at the moment, if they have the cash available.

JohnBoy, I'm not sure what the specific goals of your investment management company are, but I agree that short-term prospects are not good for HU. However, specifically in the property sector, I don't know of anywhere else in Europe at the moment, where I can get a relatively easy 8-10% rental return on the kind of premium properties which never come up for sale in neighbouring capitals, at roughly half the price of those neighbouring capitals, many of which have much deeper economic problems than Hungary, mainly due to an over-extended credit and property inflation bubble.
 
Only MKB Bank has said that it will not offer any new FX mortgages. As of now at least, all of the other banks continue to offer these products. I'm currently in the process of re-financing some of my properties in Hungary and have gotten several offers this week of EUR mortgages. I'd imagine that regulations on the withdrawal of FX loans are now tighter than before and e.g. Volksbank has stated that they will be stricter in the future with CHF loans, but it's simply not true to say that HU banks are no longer lending in foreign currency loans.

I have no doubt that you are telling the truth but the explosion of foreign currency lending is part of the reason why the forint and the Hungarian economy are not trusted by the outside world. If the Hungarian banks want to continue to lend in foreign currencies they will not be able to fund themselves in the money markets and will need to seek alternative funding sources. How do you think that they will be able to raise foreign currency funding?

Banks all over the world are having liquidity problems. Relatively speaking, Hungary is a stable position..

So stable in needed a digout from the ECB and the IMF?

It's also the case that in around four years' time, Hungary will be using the Euro, so all existing FX mortgages are likely to be converted to EUR at that time. As long as (the 80% foreign-owned banks) can fund their short-term FX borrowings until then, they will be able to get over this hump. I don't imagine that credit growth will be high during this intervening period as even with FX mortgages, the terms of take-up are strongly in favour of the lender. The major risk is if the HUF loses more than 25% of its current value, which seems unlikely.

Do you really think that Hungary will be a eurozone member so soon?

This is simply inaccurate. When you live here and speak regularly with various groups of local economic analysts, you get a totally different picture than the largely inaccurate accounts in the foreign press..

In much the same way the Irish press and economists were continually at odds with their more pessimistic foreign peers?

I have no huge respect for Gyurcsany and his 'policies', but the authorities have certainly not 'painted themselves into a corner'. The reality is that since 2006, the Hungarian economy has come back from the brink of disaster, with stringent economic policies, which have proven to be extremely successful by any standard. The current budget deficit is 3.4% for this year. The downside is that these tough measures have had an expected side effect on GDP growth and local consumer confidence, which is not good at the moment. This situation won't change overnight and Hungarians will undoubtedly experience a few more difficult years...

They allowed foreign currency lending to grow so large that it threatened the economic stability of the entire country. They cannot devalue as this will impoverish hundreds of thousands of Hungarians so all the pain has to be taken internally. Moreover, with an election looming in 2010, will the government have the nerve to actually pursue the necessary policies that will make them even less popular?

JohnBoy, I'm not sure what the specific goals of your investment management company are, but I agree that short-term prospects are not good for HU. However, specifically in the property sector, I don't know of anywhere else in Europe at the moment, where I can get a relatively easy 8-10% rental return on the kind of premium properties which never come up for sale in neighbouring capitals, at roughly half the price of those neighbouring capitals, many of which have much deeper economic problems than Hungary, mainly due to an over-extended credit and property inflation bubble.

8%-10% will not be enough if you have to fund yourself at domestic rates. Indeed, given that local rates are 11.5%, a property investor would need a return in excess of that to make sense.

I wish you luck. You seem to know what you are doing, however, a lot of amateur property investors who post here do not have much of a clue about overseas investing. All I wanted to do was to highlight some of the risks involved when considering investing in Hungary.
 
Only MKB Bank has said that it will not offer any new FX mortgages. As of now at least, all of the other banks continue to offer these products. I'm currently in the process of re-financing some of my properties in Hungary and have gotten several offers this week of EUR mortgages. I'd imagine that regulations on the withdrawal of FX loans are now tighter than before and e.g. Volksbank has stated that they will be stricter in the future with CHF loans, but it's simply not true to say that HU banks are no longer lending in foreign currency loans.
And Raffeisen have suspended CHF loans.
[broken link removed]

And Erste Bank and OTC bank have stopped FX loans:
http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/10/27/hungary-imf-loan-markets-equity-cx_po_1027markets11.html

Basically, the foreign currency swaps that have underpinned these loans will be unpurchasable given the rates on offer for them.
 
Mass media or is it because I work for an investment management firm with a dedicated emerging market research team made of of people who grew up in that area? Our Hungarian analyst regularly meets the management of the big Hungarian banks and also talks regularly with senior policy makers. This is an economy to avoid for the time being.

I disagree, no matter where you are in the world, every country in the world is gloomy about their own economies.

I look to see which countries will recover first and everything I have read recently about Hungary confirms that it will recover with far more conviction than any other country in the region. When I first looked at investing I saw consumer confidence returning 2009 onward, and from there a major recovery; due to the credit crunch it will be 2010 onward to Euro adoption in 2014.
 
It's not a digout though. ECB funding will almost definitely not be used. The IMF funding may or may not be used. It was required as the perception of Hungary to foreign investors was in severe danger, as the world waited to see who the next Iceland would be. Fundamentally, the Hungarian economy is not at the stage where it needs IMF support, although confirmation of the possibility of this loan has propelled the HUF back towards its normal range. It's very clear from a cursory analysis of CEE economics that the Baltics and Bulgaria are in a much more vulnerable position.

Yes, Hungary will almost definitely qualify for ERM2 in 18-24 months. At that stage, it will be on the path to the Euro, which is now going to be a major priority. 2012 is very likely, but almost definitely by 2014.

In much the same way the Irish press and economists were continually at odds with their more pessimistic foreign peers?
No, I'm referring instead to the fact that most of the foreign reports I've read recently have totally missed the facts of the situation and journalists often seem to be only interested in selling newspapers with sensational headlines. It was very easy to jump on the bandwagon in relation to Hungary, which has a notorious economic past! Hungarian reports have been very factual and tend to provide a much more accurate and unbiased account of what is happening. I've seen no example of Hungarian journalists trying to misrepresent the country.

I think it's absolutely important to make people aware of the risks involved with Hungary, but over the past few weeks, I've read so many inaccurate and sensationalistic accounts about the Hungarian economy, that I've felt it's also necessary to post some of the facts about what is happening on the ground. Things are going to be difficult over the next few years, but nothing like what is being portrayed in certain international publications.

yoganmahew, HU banks are continuing to lend in FX mortgages. CHF is probably going to be replaced by EUR as the currency of choice. The majority of the HU banking system is owned by EUR-based banks. Hungary is a small country and credit requirements for consumers and businesses are tiny. Even over the past few years, CHF and EUR loans were not exactly attractive options. The market will probably plod along at a slightly slower pace than before until the EUR is formally adopted. Budapest Bank, CIB Bank, Erste Bank, K&H Bank, OTP Bank, Raiffeisen Bank and UniCredit Bank (basically everyone apart from MKB) have all stated that they will continue to offer FX loans. (The information from the link you posted above is incorrect. I don't know where Forbes got it from, but Erste and OTP have confirmed that they will continue to provide EUR loans, although Hungarian-owned OTP may have potential problems doing this, as it doesn't have the deep pockets of the other banks).
 
8%-10% will not be enough if you have to fund yourself at domestic rates. Indeed, given that local rates are 11.5%, a property investor would need a return in excess of that to make sense.

Inflation is falling very fast right now and thus so will interest rates, although they may be kept this high for 6 months or so to defend the currency. Ultimately they will fall - and fast. As soon as the pre entry criteria for EMU entry are met then Hungary will be in the global spot light once more, but this time in a positive light.

That quote from your last post only speaks of NOW - whereas most smart investors invest for the future - long term investment 5yrs +

It is a good time to invest in property in Hungary.

No I have no vested interests besides my own purchases over the last few years.
 
I hope that you are both right. It looks as if it was a close call....

Gyurcsany Says Hungary Faced Risk of Default, Vasarnapi Reports

By Balazs Penz and Zoltan Simon
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Hungary faced a potential ``state default and a social crisis'' without the 20 billion euros ($26.2 billion) of international aid secured last week, Vasarnapi Hirek said, citing an interview with Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany.
``The worst case scenario we feared for days was that the forint would start plunging, all the way to 350 or 400 per euro,'' Gyurcsany told the newspaper. ``That could have become 20 percent to 30 percent inflation in no time.''
Hungary's financial crisis was averted by the credit line from the International Monetary Fund, the European Union and the World Bank, Gyurcsany told the newspaper. The country now faces the effects of a ``prolonged'' economic crisis, he added.
To contact the reporter on this story: Balazs Penz in Budapest at [email protected]; Zoltan Simon in Budapest at [email protected]
 
The majority of analysts agree that 2013/2014 is likely, but because of recent pressure, Hungary may try to meet the Maastricht criteria a year or two sooner. So, it's now possible that HU will enter ERM2 in 2010 and the Eurozone in 2012.
 
This thread is drifting somewhat.

Perhaps posters could tie the thread back to the effect on Property Investment in Hungary?
 
ERMII Entry is key to Hungarys recovery, and will effect the economy in every way imaginable, but it all begins with FDI > Jobs > Consumer confidence > and the property cycle kicks off once more leading to an inevitable property boom that will lead me to my exit strategy 5 yrs - 10 yrs + down the line before the inevitable bust comes along.

Eurozone entry is key to the bigger picture and that bigger picture has improved since Hungary is likely to enter the Eurozone sooner - now than before the credit crunch.

This is not the only factor that will lead to huge change, a change in government is likely that will have a definate strategy aimed towards growth, this will lead to increased confidence in every shape and form, but key here is business confidence & with a combined effect of ERM II entry this will lead to a growth rate of 5%+

FDI is likely to rise very quickly during the next few years.

This is all related to Property Investment in Hungary.
 
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