Opinion The Government has Just €800m to Play With

Discussion in 'Budget 2019' started by Sophrosyne, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

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    My point is that wealth is already hammered!
     
  2. gnf_ireland

    gnf_ireland Frequent Poster

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    @dereko1969 Thanks for your concern on my geography, but I never said that the park and rides should be in D1/D2. What I said was congestion charges could work in the D1/D2 areas of Dublin, with sufficient transport facilities to support it. Its pretty obvious that the facilities need to be outside the congestion zone area for them to work.

    Yes Bus Connects may make a difference, when implemented. It all depends on how quickly it is done and what the real effect is once it is achieved. It also depends on how long journeys take, especially orbital ones. I have spent the guts of an hour on the 17 bus getting from Blackrock to Nutgrove - a distance I can drive in around 15 minutes on a good day. Connectivity matters, but so does speed - especially when we are talking about people commuting to/from work.

    I would be happy for the government to introduce a congestion charge in Dublin city centre, as part of a properly coordinated plan aligned to real public transport improvements. But the charge can only be introduced once the transport plan has delivered and is working. You only have to be on the DART any morning this week to see that even small things such as minor changes to timetables have massive impacts on transport.
     
  3. Zenith63

    Zenith63 Frequent Poster

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    Have you read Capital in the Twenty First Century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Century)? Really interesting read and I'm almost certain you'll come away with a changed position on this. To be clear, the point here would not be to take capital away from the average Joe, quite the opposite in-fact, it would be to take some of it away from the generationally-extremely-wealthy and spread it more evenly to reflect the contribution of labour. For example it's not about cutting the inheritance threshold from 300k to 200k, it's about putting high rates in above 10m and maybe increasing that threshold to 1m.

    Ireland really isn't doing badly on the inequality front compared to other countries, but I think a further shift towards taxing capital rather than labour and closing off loopholes that avoid this would be a great thing for society.
     
  4. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Frequent Poster

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    According to this Irish Times article there is a health overspend of at least €600m, which will further restrict room to manoeuvre.
     
  5. Delboy

    Delboy Frequent Poster

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    Sophrosyne likes this.
  6. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

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    That would decimate Ireland's Capital Acquisitions Tax take to a tiny percentage of its current level. Not a bad outcome in my book but I doubt that's what you or Piketty intend.
    That's one way of putting it...
     
  7. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

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    It also ignores the fact that capital and people are mobile. If I had €100m, my family wouldn’t pay a cent of CAT.
     
    noproblem and T McGibney like this.
  8. Zenith63

    Zenith63 Frequent Poster

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    Ah go on now, for the sake of easing a productive discussion could you not just accept that was an example pulled out of the air early in the morning, I obviously didn't put any research into it and did not expect it to be taken literally. I just wanted to make the point that the idea would not be to take more capital from Joe Public, you'd hopefully take less, but take more from wealthier individuals.

    This point is discussed at length in the book actually, again I cannot recommend it highly enough if getting a true understanding of this stuff is interesting to you. In short though, I think the conclusion was that you would need to get to a point where there is a global effort to address this (or at least in our part of the world) to make very sweeping changes, but moderate differences in taxation on capital does not cause the fleeing of wealth that is predicated, as evidenced by differences/changes in taxation between states in the US with no significant amount of fleeing (again all from memory here, so please forgive any inaccuracies). But just because something is difficult to do or cannot be solved 100% in the first iteration, does not mean it should not be attempted.
     
  9. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

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    Pie in the sky. We just don't have enough wealthier individuals. And that's not happened by accident. It's been government policy since 1932 to screw them and almost all of them have scarpered for that reason.