The Central Bank should make it easy for banks to open accounts for Ulster Bank and KBC customers

[Brendan Burgess]

There is going to be absolute chaos next year when the 600,000 Ulster Bank customers and 100,000(?) KBC customers all rush at the same time to open accounts.

The Central Bank should require Ulster and KBC to produce some sort of document for every customer which gives the new bank everything they need to open an account.

They could skip (or postpone) the requirements for customer I.D.

It could be something along the lines of

We confirm that
John Doe is a customer of Ulster Bank

He has a current account no. with a balance of
He has an overdraft facility of
He has a deposit account no. with a balance of


Address: 14 Main Street, Dublin
DoB : 1/1/2000
Occupation

Sample signature:

 

[Baby boomer]

That is a simply brilliant idea that would be a huge boon for thousands of people. Not a chance in hell it'll be implemented. This is Ireland - regulatory capture is endemic. Don't you realise the regulators are there to protect the regulated entities? Consumer protection? You're having a laugh!

 

[Bank Manager]

Could UB not just provide the ID they hold to the new provider, rather than be writing letters, with the Regulator to provide an overall derogation re the date of same.

 

[mathepac]

GDPR, Brexit, COVID, Energy prices, lack of lorry drivers - all the odds are against it happening.

 

[skrooge]

To play devils advocate the CB have already set up the switcher account process (for all is flaws). But I doubt there is a system designed to deal with a loss of 40% of a banking sector.

There are AML and GDPR issues to consider.

The lions share of the 700k are over 18 i.e., adults so should be able to deal with these little challenges life throws at them. The prudent will act. The upset will complain to liveline. It wasn't that long ago we were all second guessing what bank was going to fail next so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect most people to look after themselves.

But I do think there should be greater awareness and help provided certain parts of society. For example, the older people in the community. They may find it particularly challenging to deal with such change. Age action and other such charities are probably well placed to help them. There is an argument for the central bank and such visitors/organisations to team up here.

 

[Nordkapp]

There is going to be absolute chaos next year when the 600,000 Ulster Bank customers and 100,000(?) KBC customers all rush at the same time to open accounts.

The Central Bank should require Ulster and KBC to produce some sort of document for every customer which gives the new bank everything they need to open an account.

They could skip (or postpone) the requirements for customer I.D.

It could be something along the lines of

We confirm that
John Doe is a customer of Ulster Bank

View attachment 5847

He has a current account no.
He has an overdraft facility of
He has a deposit account no.


Address: 14 Main Street, Dublin
DoB : 1/1/2000
Occupation

Sample signature:

AML requirements dictate requirements for opening accounts, as an account holder with both banks I’m waiting for banks to entice me to sign up. The 11th commandment, thou shalt not panic

 

[Brendan Burgess]

AML requirements dictate requirements for opening accounts

That is my point. They should be adapted for the very difficult position we find ourselves in.

A letter from Ulster Bank saying that Johnny has a balance of €56,000 in his current account should suffice to meet all the requirements.

Brendan

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Could UB not just provide the ID they hold to the new provider,

Would that be any easier? I think it would be prone to error and would be outside the control of the customer.


If UB sent out this letter to all their customers, then the customer could go online, set up the account and upload the letter and the CB would deem all the requirements met.

But maybe UB's computer system could be told to send John Doe's details to AIB.

Brendan

 

[skrooge]

That is my point. They should be adapted for the very difficult position we find ourselves in.

AML is a European not an Irish requirement. There's one rule for all

Money laundering

Money laundering is used to disguise the illegal source of the proceeds of crime. This page explains the laws against money laundering.

www.citizensinformation.ie

Arguably when it comes to collateral enforcement we are a basket case when we compare ourselves to Europe. This is why it banks are leaving. By making us an outlier in AML will only compound the problem. We're already considered a tax haven, do we want to go a step further and be a hub for all manner of illicit funds.

 

[Bank Manager]

Would that be any easier? I think it would be prone to error and would be outside the control of the customer.


If UB sent out this letter to all their customers, then the customer could go online, set up the account and upload the letter and the CB would deem all the requirements met.

.. and you think that the fraudster couldn't copy that letter in about 3 nanoseconds???

 

[Brendan Burgess]

OK, so the letter would not be sufficient on its own.

But there should be some mechanism for the letter to be sent directly from Ulster Bank to the bank chosen by the customer.

Step 1 - Customer opens an account in AIB and gets allocated a number.
Step 2- Customer goes to Ulster , ideally online, and gets Ulster to send the information under that reference number to AIB
Step 3 - AIB validates the account

 

[skrooge]

OK, so the letter would not be sufficient on its own.

But there should be some mechanism for the letter to be sent directly from Ulster Bank to the bank chosen by the customer.

Step 1 - Customer opens an account in AIB and gets allocated a number.
Step 2- Customer goes to Ulster , ideally online, and gets Ulster to send the information under that reference number to AIB
Step 3 - AIB validates the account

But what's the value added in step 2 over and above bringing ID and proof of address at step 1?

How many dud bank accounts would AIB have to process for every account that actually open. It might end up being as inefficient as what we already have.


By using Ulster's letter this would be placing the onus on AIB to accept a third party's proof that probably undermines the whole process. I doubt that would comply with AML rules

 

[Brendan Burgess]

There seems to be some big issue with opening accounts.

It's not just a question of bringing in your ID.

My suggestion is that AIB and the other banks accept the vetting done by Ulster Bank.

Brendan

 

[skrooge]

This discussion presupposes that banks are happy to take the business. If so the easiest way to get all this done would be to "purchase" the current account portfolio of Ulster/KBC.

The KBC transaction includes €4 billion of deposits. BOI has plenty of deposits why does it need more? Maybe it's a way of reducing the price. Perhaps they hope people will just leave their money there on deposit at 0%. On the other hand current accounts are seen as mechanism for selling other products to account holders. I find it strange to think they'd take the non-income generating part (deposits)and leave the part of the business that has potential.


If I were PTSB or AIB I'd be looking at taking the Ulster deposit book to 1. Reduce the price I have to pay up front 2. Reduce the amount of people who might look to remortgage elsewhere.

If they won't do it in one transaction (with due diligence and all carried out centrally) they're hardly going to want to do one person at a time

 

[skrooge]

There seems to be some big issue with opening accounts.

It's not just a question of bringing in your ID.

My suggestion is that AIB and the other banks accept the vetting done by Ulster Bank.

Brendan

The last two bank accounts I opened were an n26 account and raisin account. They were straightforward and it didn't involve me leaving the house. I supplied all the information that was required through my mobile phone.

If our banks can't provide a similar service in this day and age you've got to ask are they worth our custom in the first place.

 

[Bank Manager]

If our banks can't provide a similar service in this day and age you've got to ask are they worth our custom in the first place.

this comment would make the reader believe that only online providers provide this service - both AIB & BOI provide an online account opening function...

 

[skrooge]

this comment would make the reader believe that only online providers provide this service - both AIB & BOI provide an online account opening function...

If they can handle the volume then perhaps problem solved for most consumers. But I didn't get that impression given the fact this thread exists.

I still think there are pockets of society that need support. Especially many of the older Ulster customers.

I just don't see why a bank wouldn't buy (the deposit book) in bulk first. Maybe they are being careful to do the due diligence first? You can just write down the price of a bad asset. For a non-aml compliant current account there's nothing to transact.

 

[MrEarl]

Hello Skrooge,

Perhaps you are forgetting that holding surplus deposits is actually costing Banks money - it's not as simple as suggesting that they be paid a zero rate, as that could potentially cost a Bank up to 0.5%.

With negative rates expected to continue for a couple of years yet, and Banks already awash with funging, you'd be asking them to take on a notable cost - I can see why they don't seem to want the UB Deposit customers.

 

[MrEarl]

That is my point. They should be adapted for the very difficult position we find ourselves in.

A letter from Ulster Bank saying that Johnny has a balance of €56,000 in his current account should suffice to meet all the requirements.

Brendan

Hello Mr. Burgess,

While I'm very much in favour of seeing all of our lives made a little easier, I'm struggling with the following :

1.How do the new Banks get comfortable with the "confirmation" letter that's being given to them, by the outgoing Banks?

Do you expect the outgoing Banks to give some sort of warranty to the new Banks, for example, and if so, why would the two out going Banks be willing to do that, given it leaves a potential future liability for them?

2. How do the new Banks get the new incoming customers to sign up to their own terms and conditions - if you are asking them to open a new customer account, based on a letter from the departing Bank?

3. How can you honestly expect the Central Bank to be proactive here - given I can't think of a single instance where they've ever been on the front foot, when it comes to problem solving?

It would be super if changing bank, or any financial services provider, was as easy as changing your electricity, gas, or landline (phone) provider, but I find myself in agreement with others here, when I conclude that Anti Money Laundering legislation etc. will always prohibit that from happening.

 

[MrEarl]

When all is said and done, there's no value in either current accounts or deposit accounts, for Banks, these days (in fact, the large majority of these accounts are operated at a loss) - so neither the outgoing Bank, or the potential new Bank, have any interest in trying to make life easier for the customers who are impacted by both UB and KBC exiting the market.