The amount of compensation is a disgrace!

Hopefully

Registered User
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19
Hi Wardy 7 that is a disgrace amount for compensation. Do you mind me asking when you took your mortgage out in 2008 how long did you originally fix it for 2years or 3 years?? Also thanks for posting that you got your letter ag least we know now the letters have started to be sent obviously in drips and drabs. If you are not already in contact with Padraic Kissane i suggest you do. Best of luck.
 

AAM_User

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114
WOW !!!

That's a disgraceful amount. The Compensation amounts you received amounts to just 15.48% of your overpayments.

Does it break out how much you overpaid by each month etc ?

Would you mind scanning & posting the letter (removing any identifying remarks of course)?
 

rohzar

Registered User
Messages
5
Hi,

That amount of compensation is disgraceful! The amount you overpaid- will you get that back or does it go off your mortgage?

Thanks!
 

Andy836

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372
Not sure why people think the compensation is a "disgrace". It's over 10% of the overcharge.

What exactly are people expecting?
 

Herbie01

Registered User
Messages
2
So the €1800 they have offered as compensation is including the €400 for a financial advisor..... Disgusting is my word for it. They must be hoping everyone is fed up with the fight and will settle for their offer(insult), me thinks the fight is just starting.
 

katnia

Registered User
Messages
25
Thanks for the info Wardy7.The compo offer is ridiculously low! Hope you fight it. Best of luck if you do. I think we will all be fighting for proper recompense. At the end of the day if Ptsb were truly sorry - not only sorry because they were caught. The compo offer would be fair from the outset and if someone felt they deserved more, they could appeal it then. Effectively we are all going to get low ball offers and then we have to go with our begging bowl to appeal for a fair and proper compensation amount. They are not interested in compensating customers, if they were the offers would reflect that. We need to all be United on this if we are To defeat them and get what is correctly due to us.
 

katnia

Registered User
Messages
25
Not sure why people think the compensation is a "disgrace". It's over 10% of the overcharge.

What exactly are people expecting?[/

.
Does that sound fair to you? PTSB have been taking money from people incorrectly and without foundation for years and years. It's a paltry amount and very insulting. Do you think they go easy on interest and charges for people in arrears? People have lost their homes over this and Ptsb are trying to weasel out of paying proper compensation
 

Andy836

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372
Does that sound fair to you? PTSB have been taking money from people incorrectly and without foundation for years and years. It's a paltry amount and very insulting. Do you think they go easy on interest and charges for people in arrears? People have lost their homes over this and Ptsb are trying to weasel out of paying proper compensation
Yes, a very very small number of people may have lost their home because of this, and they're being compensated separately. The original poster on this thread did not lose his home, nor did over 99% of those affected.

Now, to my point, what is "proper compensation"? What is not an "insulting" or "paltry" amount? Put a figure on it and justify it.

Complaints without an alternative are pointless.
 
W

Wardy7

Guest
An alternative to applying a flat % across the board, they could band it:
Those overcharged a little (up to threshold A) get small compensation redress,
Those who overcharged slightly more (up to Threshold B) might get compensation at a higher rate for the amount between Threshold A & Threshold B
Then you'd have Threshold C & Threshold D
etc

Easy to argue those who only overpaid a small amount weren't materially affected so their comp claim would be limited, however those with sizable overpayments would have a better comp argument as the overpayment could be material (i.e. a new car, or an extension etc).
Andy836, I see your point but at the same time, it's not anyone's place to decide what's a small or large amount to anyone else. I actually had thought that my mortgage was quite sizeable but maybe not in everyone's eyes?? I have a child heading into 4th year UCD, who very nearly didn't get there at all because of the size of our mortgage. And that's just one example of the intense pressure caused by these cowboys.

So thankfully, we didn't lose our home, but the stresses, anxieties and pressures that we did go through can't be discounted either.
 

Sunny

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Messages
3,438
I have to say that at first glance, I think the compensation offers sound derisory. I know it's the summer but how yesterday's relevantions have not resulted in a political storm is an indictment of our political system and I have to say the media. At least 22 people probably lost property because of PTSB's actions. This was a State owned bank that decided to drag this out all the way to the Supreme Court. Absolutely disgusting and I feel bad for only paying lip service to this issue in the past. I had no idea how deliberate and widespread it was.

I wish everyone involved all the best and the only advice I would give is to make sure you get independent legal and financial advice. Do not trust the bank and do not feel intimidated by 18 page letters. Congrats to Brendan and others for helping these people when politicians and mainstream media didn't want to know.
 

AAM_User

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Messages
114
Yes, a very very small number of people may have lost their home because of this, and they're being compensated separately. The original poster on this thread did not lose his home, nor did over 99% of those affected.

Now, to my point, what is "proper compensation"? What is not an "insulting" or "paltry" amount? Put a figure on it and justify it.

Complaints without an alternative are pointless.
OK, to me, compensation for the fact that I exhausted my savings making sure the mortgage was paid, that I had to go without things because the money wasn't there. That my kids had to go without a holiday for three of the years, that I suffered depression and high blood pressure because of it, and that I will now be on relatively expensive medication for the rest of my life to manage both things, which resulted in me being let go from a job I loved because I could no longer perform it as I used to, for the three years I spent unemployed because of that, for the times I had to go to my parents & in-laws for help with buying school books & uniforms because we were struggling to keep our heads above water. For every direct debit that bounced because there wasn't enough money left at the end of the month. For being harassed twice a week by phone...

I used to overpay my mortgage in the hopes of paying it off early, I'm going to make it my life's work now to ensure my mortgage looses as much money for PTSB as I can. Yes, I'll hate being their customer for the next 20+ years, but I'll smile with every payment knowing that I'm costing them.
 

Rory Boyd

Registered User
Messages
8
I think AAM has hit the nail on the head....Everyone has been affected differently as a result of this fiasco. The one commodity that money can't buy is time...if your kids missed a holiday you can't go back and relive 2009/10 etc etc..you can't undo the sleepless nights of worry you had thinking how will you get out of this..I could go on....while I'm delighted to get my tracker back it was only when I redid the repayment based on my old rate/term and loan left compared to the tracker/term and loan left and realized that I would have paid just under €300,000 more in interest that the anger started to kick in...€300k is some pension fund, college fees paid etc etc...to think a few lousy grand is apt is a million miles from reality. I would be thinking €10k was a good starting point. That isn't greedy in my view...
 

Andy836

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372
Andy836, I see your point but at the same time, it's not anyone's place to decide what's a small or large amount to anyone else. I actually had thought that my mortgage was quite sizeable but maybe not in everyone's eyes?? I have a child heading into 4th year UCD, who very nearly didn't get there at all because of the size of our mortgage. And that's just one example of the intense pressure caused by these cowboys.

So thankfully, we didn't lose our home, but the stresses, anxieties and pressures that we did go through can't be discounted either.
That's the point - much of the "damage caused" is intangible and/or hypothetical and someone must place a monetary value on it. Is it feasible to individually assess 2,000 cases? You'll see from posts on this thread, and from what Brendan has said in the media, that many many people affected (the majority perhaps) didn't even realize they were being overcharged*. Without putting a figure on it & justifying that calculation, I would be very very skeptical that one would succeed in increasing their compensation payment.

The tiered/banded compensation procedure which I stated elsewhere (steps up as the level of overcharge increases) would, in my opinion, be a more reasonable & progressive solution.

As to the size of your mortgage, that's all relative. Everyone's mortgage is big in their eyes!! Mr Rory O'Brien claiming he might have suffered an overcharge of 300k suggests a mortgage well north a million.

Technically they weren't being overcharged. The Borrowers freely accepted the standard variable rate when they sought to break their fixed rate as it was cheaper than the fixed rate they were on. The high court case turned on whether or not PTSB had an obligation to inform the Borrower that they would lose their tracker option if they broke early. This ascribes a level of fiduciary care on behalf of the Bank toward the consumer with which I disagree - effectively absolves the consumer of responsibility (but everything in Ireland is someone elses fault so I don't see why this should be any different). I think this is a dangerous precedent to set but it is done & dusted now.
 
D

Descart

Guest
Andy836,

Have you got shares in PTSB or what, the High Court will assess all claims individually. By the time these High Court cases come to judgment stage, the Central Bank of Ireland will have issued PTSB a multi million euro fine and deservedly so. Now the court can assess whether there was, in fact, breaches of financial regulations, coupled with a breach of duty to act in good faith by the bank. Seeing that the C.B.I. will have issued a large fine (and it will be a large fine), the court can assess whether there was a systemic policy by the bank to deceive borrowers and trick them out of their tracker mortgages in contravention of their mortgage terms and conditions.

If the court takes this view then it can award aggravated damages as well as ordinary and special damages. There is also the possibility of taking an action against the bank under the law of tort. The law of tort runs parallel to common law. In tort the Judge has the duty to try and put the affected person (borrower) back in the same position he would have been if the tort never occurred. In other words back in a same sized house that PTSB sold on through a receiver, at a knocked down price. Due to increases in the market value of houses in recent years the bank would be liable to pay out significant compensation.

Also if a customer affected decides to go to the High Court to seek compensation his legal fees could well be in excess of 50,000 euro, this excludes the cost of PTSB legal representation. Seeing that liability has been admitted by Mr Masdang ( he is so very sorry ), the case is a win win situation for the borrower's legal team. There will be a queue of no win, no fee solicitors seeking to represent the borrowers affected.
 
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D

Descart

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Andy836,

You also believe that the customers affected, were technically not being overcharged, then why on Earth has the bank admitted wrong doing at an official PTSB press conference. You must have some legal expertise that PTSB simply could not afford, you could have saved them millions, if only they had contacted you sooner. Andy836 get down to PTSB in the morning and tell the board of management that they got it all wrong and that it's the borrowers fault. You are wasting your time posting on the AAM site, you could be saving the PTSB millions of euro and getting a fortune in legal fees.
 
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Andy836

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Messages
372
Sure thing asphyxia/descart/advice etc

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure there'll be queues out the door of the high court. Im sure you could even squeeze in some unfair terms & conditions argument relating to variation interest rates.

As to you're "tricking conspiracy theory" the high court actually adjudicated on this and found against the 2 ombudsman decisions which claimed same.
 
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Bronte

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Messages
13,241
OK, to me, compensation for the fact that I exhausted my savings making sure the mortgage was paid, that I had to go without things because the money wasn't there. That my kids had to go without a holiday for three of the years, that I suffered depression and high blood pressure because of it, and that I will now be on relatively expensive medication for the rest of my life to manage both things, which resulted in me being let go from a job I loved because I could no longer perform it as I used to, for the three years I spent unemployed because of that, for the times I had to go to my parents & in-laws for help with buying school books & uniforms because we were struggling to keep our heads above water. For every direct debit that bounced because there wasn't enough money left at the end of the month. For being harassed twice a week by phone...

I used to overpay my mortgage in the hopes of paying it off early, I'm going to make it my life's work now to ensure my mortgage looses as much money for PTSB as I can. Yes, I'll hate being their customer for the next 20+ years, but I'll smile with every payment knowing that I'm costing them.
Well said poster AAM user. 2 k is nothing in compensation for all the stress and suffering. I hope things are brighter for you now.
 

Bronte

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Messages
13,241
Not sure why people think the compensation is a "disgrace". It's over 10% of the overcharge.

What exactly are people expecting?
Come off it Andy, the amount offered is derisory. As for the 50k for losing ones home, that's sick, a sick joke. They should be put back in a comparable house as if they'd been making the payments all along. Do you not realise the untold stress all of this has had on people. How many posters have we had on here over the last 10 years doing their absolute dampest to hold onto their homes. And the treatment we have heard then encounter when they tried to deal on their own with a banker.

People on here crying that they couldn't answer the phone anymore. Do you not recall the article a few years back about the units in banks with targets on the walls for staff to badger customers and get some money in. Disgusting stuff.
 

peteb

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Messages
1,630
And what about the rest of us that had issue and werent with PTSB?? Compensation isnt the standard route. But yet we all had the same trials and tribulations. In fact PTSB customers probably had an easier life of it as it was highly publicised and therefore required less individual fighting! If you lost your home, then yes I see the point. If you moved to another provider, then yet. But still with PTSB, no.
 
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