You nailed it in a very common sense way.....be wary of derivative abstractions & complexity & cleverness where none need exist.......the complexity is there to benefit the promoters, not users/customers.......and to the extent the complexity is warranted in stablecoins, the use case for it is to avoid regulations/laws/AML/KYC.......put bluntly stablecoins are the functional equialvent of going into an offshore unlicensed Casino & exchanging money for Casino issued chips that represent legal tender (but arent!)
Tether/Stablecoins are the hot air inside the Bitcoin bubble...their regulation will burst it
- Thread starter letitroll
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You nailed it in a very common sense way.....be wary of derivative abstractions & complexity & cleverness where none need exist.......the complexity is there to benefit the promoters, not users/customers.......and to the extent the complexity is warranted in stablecoins, the use case for it is to avoid regulations/laws/AML/KYC.......put bluntly stablecoins are the functional equialvent of going into an offshore unlicensed Casino & exchanging money for Casino issued chips that represent legal tender (but arent!)
Duke of Marmalade
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@letitroll explains it very well. So a typical activity would be sell XYZ crypto and buy ABC crypto. Apparently it is more convenient to park the proceeds of the sale in crypto space rather than going out into the real world and back again into crypto space.
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Brendan Burgess
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Can you not buy sterling and dollars 24 hours a day somewhere in the world?
I can't see how that is relevant in any way.
Brendan
I can't see how that is relevant in any way.
Brendan
CuriousGeorge11
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The casino comparison is a good one because that's what crypto is for a lot of people.
Online gambling is illegal in America but crypto allows people to gamble
You have Burgess PLC based out of Dublin - with international subsidiaries all over the place. Wouldn't international settlement be much simpler if it was direct from HQ to subsidiary company? The conventional settlement process might involve a number of intermediaries, implicate settlement risk and take a few days and cost a lot. It doesn't have to. Furthermore, you're finding that you have trapped liquidity in various currencies that's proving to be a wholly inefficient use of capital.
Example 2 - you've just moved to where-the-hell-istan - the local government has implemented capital controls that say that any USD that enters the country will automatically be converted to where-the-hell-istan dollars. The local currency debases faster than a melting ice cube. Wouldn't a USD stablecoin be useful?
Use case goes well beyond that - but we'll start with the above.
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DazedInPontoon
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Wow this question honestly blows my mind. I guess we're still that early.
1) You no longer need to worry about whether today starts with an 'S' when making a transaction and considering when it will arrive.
2) Geography becomes irrelevant for transactions.
3) You can self custody your digital dollars without counter-party risk.
The real question is if the perfect stable coin for dollars existed why would you ever use non-stable-coin dollars again? I would be closing all my bank accounts.
Duke of Marmalade
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Exactly. If money trees actually existed folk could simply plant a few (one would be enough actually) and nobody need ever work again. Crypto paradise - bring it on.
Actually an algorithm which created indestructible links to the dollar out of nothing would be far superior to money trees as the latter would presumably involve some effort in plucking the dollars off the trees.
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Totally disingenuous, Duke. You know well that was in no way his suggestion.
Almost? Can you not extend to a full endorsement? If not, where's the variance?
Duke of Marmalade
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Anybody like to disagree that an algorithm that produces digital entries out of thin air with an indestructible link to the $ (in cult language seigniorage) is at least as good as, nay better than a money tree.
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Duke of Marmalade
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I do have a minor quibble with post #141. Institutions are servants of themselves which they achieve by pretending to be servants of their customers.
Hilarious with what goes on in the conventional world, NOW in this example you have an issue with who benefits from seigniorage!
There are seigniorage-based algorithmic stablecoins and collateral-based algorithmic stablecoins. So if the latter is the one that cracks it, no doubt you will come up with some other reason to be negative about it, right?
Wow, such unnecessary condescension - I guess you must be the smartest guy in the room.
1) I never worry about whether there is an S in the day when I'm making any transactions. It really has never impacted my life in any meaningful way. I have no idea why stock markets being open 24/7 is a good thing. I think there are more than enough hours in the day for speculative transactions.
2) Global trade happens every day, and most of the barriers to global trade aren't to do with currency
3) I don't actually want to self-custody my assets. I'd rather self-custody hard cash under my mattress than leave it lying in a digital wallet somewhere where that I have no idea what it will be worth when I wake up in the morning. Counter-party risk is relatively small for the average person if they are sensible about where they keep their assets. I say relatively small, as compared to the risk of holding crypto, which in my view (not the smartest guy in the room) is very, very, very high risk.
I'm sure you'd agree that your experience is not likely to be representative of every individual or corporate entity everywhere in the world in this respect. Why should we restrict ourselves if the ability exists to transact all days - not some days?
According to your first point, it doesn't happen every day. On barriers to trade, are capital controls barriers? Is access to international banking a barrier? (and before you consider that, step out of your own shoes and consider that from the point of view of folks in the developing world). There's certainly friction in the current system. Do you think its reasonable for me to pay $100 for a wire transfer that takes an age as I did some months back? Why should we involve intermediaries that add fees and slow down transaction time if we can do so ourselves directly in real time?
If you're a corporate treasurer managing money and find that there's liquidity trapped in various countries and in various currencies just so that payments can be made, isn't that a problem you would solve if a solution presented itself? The same with counterparty risk relative to the settlement process.
I'll refer you back to my response to your first point on that one.
That might be relevant in another discussion but not in a discussion on an algorithmic stablecoin that can't be depegged. Other than that, your mattress storage comes with its own risks.
How about assets kept in a sovereign currency that fails when its impossible to store in a leading fiat currency such as USD, Euro, etc (due to the implementation of capital controls)? What about the failure of banks? Each to their own but I'm with DiP on this one. Once there's no more need, I'll pull away from banks entirely and self custody.
I'm not sure if you're referring to risks relative to self-custody. If so, I agree that there's great responsibility in that instance. However, once more user friendly products based on multi-sig - where there are a number of signers required to effect a transaction - are introduced, that risk will go away also.
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'Operation Constriction' playing out @tecate as I said it would in 2021. The wheels of justice move slow....but its relentless. The final destination here is clear.
Binance has been taken to the woodshed by the US government (DOJ, treasury & SEC next)......its toast and likely functionally bankrupt over time.....in a very real sense all Binance is now is a data repository for the US government to collect historical intelligence information for the flow of illicit funds globally over the last number of years (Hamas etc.). Its an AML depository. CZ has thrown his main customers (criminals & money launders) under the bus to try and save himself.
Inside Binance sits the evidence needed to bring about the demise of Tether.....and what is uncovered inside Binance & with CZ as cooperating witness will be sufficient to bring Tether down for its facilitation of terrorists, ransomware and money laundering...as well as the broad market manipulation that it facilities across the crypto ecosystem.
Tether is now on borrowed time........I give it probably max 18 months from here. They will until then print USDT's with reckless abandon now in this period to allow insiders to exit with whatever real money exists inside the crypto closed loop ecosystem. See the price you see on your screen @tecate in this world for every coin & token incl. BTC.......is a fantasy. Facilitated by wash trading and painting the tape across exchanges with this funny money created by three guys in the British virgin islands called USDT.
Before the tired crypto talking point trope is rolled out by you - which says - "well cash is ALSO used for illicit activity you gonna ban that......the internet is used for ilicit you gonna ban that....phones are used for ilicit activity you gonna ban that. The wheel, you gonna ban that
" That is, as your realizing already I'm sure, one of the great false equivalencies of our time which is becoming increasingly laughable as FTX, Binance etc collapse and crypto 'building' delivers no mass market products that are used at scale by anybody....cash facilitates global commerce and trade.....an amazing net positive, the Internet facilitated a revolution in communication, knowledge and connectivity, the smart phone connected 6 billion people....what an amazing contribution to civilisation....whatever negatives they've created (and they have) are deeply outweighed by the positive contribution to society and humanity that they provide.
Put simply the ledger is overwhelming weighted towards the positive for these inventions.
Crypto, almost a decade and a half into its life.....a sufficient period to see if there is any 'there,there', has a positive/negative ledger that is overwhelmingly weighted towards negatives....that it fails the technology advancement test and so you are seeing governments move against it.
Its killer application.....remains to this day 15 years later.....gambling, securities fraud, extortion & money laundering.
Look forward to popping back once Tether blows up. My thesis is playing out nicely - my 2030 wager with you on BTC price is already in the bag I feel......before 2030 & tether's blowup of course I'll pop back in the interim when Coinbase's is found guilty in court of the charges the SEC has brought i.e found guilty of running an illegal exchange, listing unregistered securities and acting as an unregistered broker-dealer and clearing house in the US.
The dream is over @tecate hope your seeing that. Forget what Coindesk & Crypto news channels are telling you.....they're job is to keep you at the Casino table until the insiders take all YOUR money off the table.
Lol, i get personally addressed how many times in that post? I'll take that as a compliment.
I have other stuff to get on with and we're not exactly covering anything new here so I'll keep this brief.
Firstly, as I pointed out to you previously, you haven't predicted anything here. It was clear what was going on with this Biden administration long before you made your 'prediction'.
Next, Binance is getting its wings clipped. There's good and bad in that. I'm no fan of CZ. I'm no fan of sh*tcoin casinos. Note that BTC unit price didn't even flinch. In fact, it's gone up. JPMorgan came out the next day and said that it was good for the space. I'm no fan of JPMorgan but I agree with them. There's been a lot of uncertainty hanging over Binance over the past 12 months. And lets flip back to predictions - you said that it was going to continually disintegrate in price. That's not what we've seen. What we've seen is that its been incredibly resilient and that resilience has battled through it all - we're still in the high rates environment that you predicted as the end of days for bitcoin.
However, it isn't playing out as it is right now because we have caring, soft n' cuddly politicians in the US. This is being set up for TradFi. A BTC ETF is inevitable at this point and its likely no more than 6 months away. I don't expect that to have immediate results as some predict. I suspect it will be a slow burner - but those building blocks (all the infrastructure necessary) continue to be put in place for institutional use of this asset.
And its a global asset. Why is that important? Well, while Biden foolishly let Pocahontas (Elizabeth Warren) run policy relative to crypto, every admin has its day. Yes, the US remains the most important financial market but there's plenty of hay to be made in Asia while the yanks fumble. And the Asians (and Emiratis) are taking that opportunity via Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai & Abu Dhabi.
As for Tether, firstly I'll remind you that I was the first person to ever present with concerns about Tether on this particular forum. If there's anything rotten at Tether - then lets have it out. I'm down with that. In that eventuality, it will certainly be the mother of all kicks in the whotsits for the bitcoin market. It will put my timeline for a positive outcome in our little wager back about 2 years (although still well within the 2030 limit). However, what you have continually failed to appreciate is that BTC the asset and its network are unblemished. All we've seen is bad centralized actors around the edges. BTC will overcome all of that nonsense and in the longer run, it will be all the stronger for it.
I have other stuff to get on with and we're not exactly covering anything new here so I'll keep this brief.
Firstly, as I pointed out to you previously, you haven't predicted anything here. It was clear what was going on with this Biden administration long before you made your 'prediction'.
Next, Binance is getting its wings clipped. There's good and bad in that. I'm no fan of CZ. I'm no fan of sh*tcoin casinos. Note that BTC unit price didn't even flinch. In fact, it's gone up. JPMorgan came out the next day and said that it was good for the space. I'm no fan of JPMorgan but I agree with them. There's been a lot of uncertainty hanging over Binance over the past 12 months. And lets flip back to predictions - you said that it was going to continually disintegrate in price. That's not what we've seen. What we've seen is that its been incredibly resilient and that resilience has battled through it all - we're still in the high rates environment that you predicted as the end of days for bitcoin.
However, it isn't playing out as it is right now because we have caring, soft n' cuddly politicians in the US. This is being set up for TradFi. A BTC ETF is inevitable at this point and its likely no more than 6 months away. I don't expect that to have immediate results as some predict. I suspect it will be a slow burner - but those building blocks (all the infrastructure necessary) continue to be put in place for institutional use of this asset.
And its a global asset. Why is that important? Well, while Biden foolishly let Pocahontas (Elizabeth Warren) run policy relative to crypto, every admin has its day. Yes, the US remains the most important financial market but there's plenty of hay to be made in Asia while the yanks fumble. And the Asians (and Emiratis) are taking that opportunity via Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai & Abu Dhabi.
And there it is ...that AAM boomer arrogance that I first found on this topic on this forum back in late 2017. Anyone worth listening to would never talk in absolutes. Your wager is far from in the bag! - most especially because what you or I think or believe doesn't control the outcome. Additionally, you have a short memory. I recall a previous wager expressed with exactly the same certainty on your part re. the outcome - where you went missing for six months after your 'thesis' on that occasion failed. You'd imagine that would nurture a bit of humility re. your future predictions but evidently, that's not the case.
As for Tether, firstly I'll remind you that I was the first person to ever present with concerns about Tether on this particular forum. If there's anything rotten at Tether - then lets have it out. I'm down with that. In that eventuality, it will certainly be the mother of all kicks in the whotsits for the bitcoin market. It will put my timeline for a positive outcome in our little wager back about 2 years (although still well within the 2030 limit). However, what you have continually failed to appreciate is that BTC the asset and its network are unblemished. All we've seen is bad centralized actors around the edges. BTC will overcome all of that nonsense and in the longer run, it will be all the stronger for it.
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time to plan
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This must be a lie. Tecate has said that BTC is resistant to goverment censorship.
You're a tad confused (even if deliberately so). Binance is a centralized business. Any centralized business can be kicked around by government. Bitcoin is not a centralized business, its a network and a decentralized asset. If it was a business, the CEO of Bitcoin would have been locked up years ago.
Bitcoin remains censorship resistant. Anyone is free to transact on the Bitcoin network and no government can prevent that. What you're misrepresenting is the effect that government action can have on bitcoin and crypto markets rather than bitcoin itself - which I've acknowledged from the outset. As I outlined above, the Biden admin https://archive.is/O1epa (isn't going to be successful) in its attempt at suppression in the longer run.
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Hi everyone...I have this question about Tether/Stablecoins. Has anyone used staking on decentralised platforms ? I mean not binance but services like compound, often they pay good interest much higher than bank(I'm check on dexlender.com). For some reason I have more confidence in such services than in exchanges that go under every year)).
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