James Kirk
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Ultimately they have to win against the big car companies that have a long history of producing very complicated products , producing a modern diesel car is still not easy. Therefore I still think that the likes of Toyota or Nissan will still be able to overtake Tesla in electric cars especially if they take them on with pricing. Because electric cars are still a small share of the overall car market they have not needed to take on Tesla yet,they are not going to cannibalise their conventional car sales by competing with Tesla on pricing.
Joe. can i just say a few things on this. Toyota have so far made no effort to produce any full EV. They say they will in 2025. However they are investing the bulk of R&D in hydrogen fuel-cell cars which they believe to be the future.
But maybe Toyota will be right, it is a very difficult physical and technological problem to store that much energy in a battery, Toyota have chosen the more difficult path initially in going the hydrogen route, but they will not reach any limits on energy storage as hydrogen is the ultimate in energy storage even better than petroleum.
yes its a very good analysis of the benefits of both technologies. Electric wins with regards to cost of producing it but loses with regard to weight and energy density . Therefore to have a comprehensive replacement for petroleum you need both. In a nutshell it explains why technology has not been able to replace petroleum , and electric cars have not achieved this because of the limitations of electric batteries as very well explained above.Have a look at this Joe. EV v Fuelcell.
The Truth about Hydrogen
Get 2 months of Skillshare for FREE using this link: https://skl.sh/realengineering13Errors: I made an off hand comment about adding efficiencies in the vide...www.youtube.com
yes its a very good analysis of the benefits of both technologies. Electric wins with regards to cost of producing it but loses with regard to weight and energy density . Therefore to have a comprehensive replacement for petroleum you need both. In a nutshell it explains why technology has not been able to replace petroleum.
Can you share the podcast?Today a Tesla battery has an energy density of about 265Wh/kg. Up until now that density has been improved by 5% a year. Musk has been hinting that they now have a break through that will mark a big jump in battery density. He did a very long podcast last week and stressed the importance of the acquisition of Maxwell Technologies last year. Maxwell have been experimenting with Dry Battery Electroide technology. They claimed last night that they have cracked it and believe they can produce a battery with 300Wh/kg with a clear path to 500Wh/kg. If that's true then it will mark a huge jump in Tesla battery advantage over any competition. Musk did explain what the Dry Battery Electroide technology is, but to be honest it's a long way above by understanding. However I do understand what it will mean for Tesla. It's cheaper, increases distance, decreases charge time, cobalt free and increases battery life X2. Not only is it an advantage for cars but for the energy business as well.
Can you share the podcast?
They claimed last night that they have cracked it and believe they can produce a battery with 300Wh/kg with a clear path to 500Wh/kg. If that's true then it will mark a huge jump in Tesla battery advantage over any competition.
They claimed last night that they have cracked it and believe they can produce a battery with 300Wh/kg
Batteries dont need to get anywhere near the energy density of fossil fuels, a Gen 1 Nissan Leaf would suit 99% of commuters on the road every morning (pulled that figure out of my ass but its the vast majority). A bit of investment in charging infrastructure, fast chargers, and stick with the ~5% annual improvement in battery tech and ICE will have had its day, it already has tbh, nobody who owns an electric wants to go back.Just to put this in context and compare this with petroleum, 300Wh/kg is 300 W delivered for 1 hour stored in 1 kg of battery, to convert this to joules for the total energy stored it is (300*3600) = 1.08 MJ of energy.
Now a kg of petrol has 46 MJ of energy per kg.
That is 1 MJ for a battery versus 46 MJ for petroleum, even after Musks supposed breakthrough.
That shows the gargantuan gap between electric batteries and petroleum that Musk will never be able to leap because of the limits of physics.
Energy is not the same as computer power , there are no 10x gains in energy technology like there were for computers. Even BIll Gates has been saying this. Even if there is a big switch to electric cars it will barely put a dent in the use of hydrocarbons.
Just to put this in context and compare this with petroleum, 300Wh/kg is 300 W delivered for 1 hour stored in 1 kg of battery, to convert this to joules for the total energy stored it is (300*3600) = 1.08 MJ of energy.
Now a kg of petrol has 46 MJ of energy per kg.
That is 1 MJ for a battery versus 46 MJ for petroleum, even after Musks supposed breakthrough.
That shows the gargantuan gap between electric batteries and petroleum that Musk will never be able to leap because of the limits of physics.
Energy is not the same as computer power , there are no 10x gains in energy technology like there were for computers. Even BIll Gates has been saying this. Even if there is a big switch to electric cars it will barely put a dent in the use of hydrocarbons.
What is relevant at this moment in history is that a traveling EV = zero Co2(or close to it) while a petrol car = 8800 grams of Co2 per gallon of petrol
That is 1 MJ for a battery versus 46 MJ for petroleum, even after Musks supposed breakthrough.
That shows the gargantuan gap between electric batteries and petroleum that Musk will never be able to leap because of the limits of physics.
Renewables and low CO2 options like new nuclear reactors will gain more and more share in the energy mix, its inevitable, it wont be perfect but dont let perfect be the enemy of good, it will be way better than fossil fuels anyway, in economic as well as environmental terms.That is not correct and is not comparing like with like, to produce 1kWh of electricity emits 0.62 kg of CO2
An electric vehicle consumes 20kWh per 100km
A petrol car consumes 6L of fuel per 100 km approximately
There is 2,3kg of CO2 in 1L of petrol
so 100km drive in a petrol car emits 13.8kg of CO2 ( 6 x 2.3 )
and 100km drive in an electric car emits 12.4kg of CO2 ( 20 x 0.62 )
So they both emit virtually the same CO2 by driving when you take into account the CO2 emitted in generating the electricity.
Of course the CO2 produced in electricity generation is never taken into consideration which is completely dishonest. We are never getting to 100% renewables in electricity generation, we wont even get to 50%. So electric cars will still be contributing to substantial CO2 emmissions if it is adopted.
That is not correct and is not comparing like with like, to produce 1kWh of electricity emits 0.62 kg of CO2
An electric vehicle consumes 20kWh per 100km
A petrol car consumes 6L of fuel per 100 km approximately
There is 2,3kg of CO2 in 1L of petrol
so 100km drive in a petrol car emits 13.8kg of CO2 ( 6 x 2.3 )
and 100km drive in an electric car emits 12.4kg of CO2 ( 20 x 0.62 )
So they both emit virtually the same CO2 by driving when you take into account the CO2 emitted in generating the electricity.
Of course the CO2 produced in electricity generation is never taken into consideration which is completely dishonest. We are never getting to 100% renewables in electricity generation, we wont even get to 50%. So electric cars will still be contributing to substantial CO2 emmissions if it is adopted.
You using old figures there. By 2018 average gCO2/kWh was 291g (and should have dropped further since).
That is not correct and is not comparing like with like, to produce 1kWh of electricity emits 0.62 kg of CO2
An electric vehicle consumes 20kWh per 100km
A petrol car consumes 6L of fuel per 100 km approximately
There is 2,3kg of CO2 in 1L of petrol
so 100km drive in a petrol car emits 13.8kg of CO2 ( 6 x 2.3 )
and 100km drive in an electric car emits 12.4kg of CO2 ( 20 x 0.62 )
So they both emit virtually the same CO2 by driving when you take into account the CO2 emitted in generating the electricity.
Of course the CO2 produced in electricity generation is never taken into consideration which is completely dishonest. We are never getting to 100% renewables in electricity generation, we wont even get to 50%. So electric cars will still be contributing to substantial CO2 emmissions if it is adopted.
The direction of travel in electricity generation is away from fossil fuels (and accelerating). So while the calculation may be correct, it should be different within a number of years.
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