RonnieShinbal88
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Tax Treatment of Landlords has to be Revisited
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RonnieShinbal88
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Allpartied
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We need to move away from the permanent housing crisis which means a radical approach.
How about we abolish private landlords and force them to sell their properties. The state replaces them as the landlord for those who cannot, or do not want to buy.
I mean they're whinging like billy-o anyway. Constantly complaining about the terrible deal they get and the lack of respect, so we'd, probably, be doing them a favour.
The great thing about houses is that the landlords can't export them overseas, or stick them in a security box. They have to hand them over to someone else, someone who actually needs the house to live in. As the private landlords flood the market with their houses, the price would fall and many more people could get to live in their own house, at an affordable price.
How about we abolish private landlords and force them to sell their properties. The state replaces them as the landlord for those who cannot, or do not want to buy.
I mean they're whinging like billy-o anyway. Constantly complaining about the terrible deal they get and the lack of respect, so we'd, probably, be doing them a favour.
The great thing about houses is that the landlords can't export them overseas, or stick them in a security box. They have to hand them over to someone else, someone who actually needs the house to live in. As the private landlords flood the market with their houses, the price would fall and many more people could get to live in their own house, at an affordable price.
Thankfully our Constitution would preclude that approach.
Allpartied
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The constitution can be changed, by the people, because the people are sovereign.
The landlords could plead their case to the people and see how they get on.
Or, alternatively, the elected government could just implement a tax on landlords which would make it uneconomical to operate. Added to an empty homes tax of, say, 50% of the property value. Should do the trick.
Of course.
But I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell that a referendum to restrict private ownership of property of the type suggested would pass. Frankly, it’s pure fantasy.
Read it again, I didn't.
They're 50k units behind the level needed in the last two years alone. You think they're waiting around for a few more landlords to exit before they start delivering at a pace that meets exceeds the the current rate of growth in demand?
Unfortunately the state has spectacularly failed in their responsibilities to provide social housing. I'd have little faith in them sorting that mess out and servicing the private rental market along with it.
RonnieShinbal88
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PebbleBeach2020
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Quite possibly the most stupid comment on AAM. You wouldn't get this in China. Possibly in North Korea. Absolutely bonkers.
It's alarming that I actually think you are being serious and not taking the proverbial.
Allpartied
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BTL has been a disaster for housing.
I’ve seen the ex rentals and they are, almost universally,dumps. Flimsy kitchens, poorly insulated, decrepit fixtures, not painted or decorated for ages, maintenance neglected. The landlords are driven by profit and spend the bare minimum on their houses. The housing policy has been designed to help rich people get even richer , by sucking up the wages of productive workers. Treating housing as, primarily, an investment arm of the wealthy. As if that was its main purpose.
Stop playing the victim. Our pathetic government has been letting you away with murder and it’s about time we changed policy.
Serious question - how would abolishing landlords work in practice?
Would the government provide rental accommodation to everyone who needed some place to live and did not want to buy or wasn't in a position to buy at that particular time?
For example:
1. South African engineer moves to Waterford on a two year contract. His salary is 80k. He is looking for a two bed (family will visit) near the city centre with parking. The government will find such an apartment for him and rent it to him.
2. An 25 year old carpenter living with his parents in Tuam meets a teacher also living with her parents in Tuam. They fall in love and decide to move in together. They are looking for a one or two bed house or apartment in Tuam, ideally within walking distance of her school. Again, the government will organise this for them and rent it to them
3. A doctor in Galway gets a job in the Mater, Dublin. She will be moving with her family to Dublin. She had placed her children in a particular school and needs a large 4 bed house within driving distance of the school. Again, government organises this for her and rents the house to her.
4. An accountant separates from his wife and leaves the family home. He needs a two bed house or apartment ideally with a garden or play area (the kids will be staying over) near his former home. Yet again, he contacts the relevant government department and they organise this for him and rent it to him.
Is this how you envisage it will work - set up a new government agency 'Residential Tenancies for All Agency', if you need someplace to rent, you just contact it, give it your specifications and it finds and organises the place for you? If not, how will it work?
Honestly, I am genuinely interested to know as the private rental market is imploding and the government will have to step in in a major way. No other country in the world has the input you suggest into its citizens' housing needs, so I am interested in hearing from you how you think we'd organise this.
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I never claimed you did!
Was this prior to the introduction of the minimum standards legislation? With that, the standards required for rental property now exceeds that of owner-occupied.
Apart from the fact that the government can't afford to provide houses for the entire population, has completely mismanaged the houses it has provided (sold them off at knockdown prices for vote buying, maintains them poorly, doesn't bother collecting the rent) EU state aid rules preclude government from subsidizing the provision of housing for people with incomes above the limits for access to social housing. The European Commission has taken legal action against the Swedish and Dutch government in relation to this. Do the same rules not apply to Ireland?
Actually it sounds like the USSR. Soviet style tower blocks built to house all. We know from experience how well that works in Ireland. But it would probably work better if there is no other choice of housing!
From talking to public reps, part of the reason why this hasn't happened is because there are no guarantees it would actually keep those currently considering selling from going ahead with it. That's why you have more "stick" in form of the eviction ban (a crude instrument, but it effectively shuts the door). The other difficulty is that they don't want a scenario where "politically" landlords are seen to be getting something without giving something back in return.
Its a tricky one, but part of the problem is that many rental properties were built in the early 00s and severely hit by value drops 10 years ago, and many of the sales are looking to claw back while prices are peaking. The only way you could possibly prevent that would be via a punitive tax on non PPR sales, but thats not fair either.
PebbleBeach2020
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Very interesting articles in the Independent and Times today, see links below (if not allowed give links, let me know and I will delete same)
www.independent.ie
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www.irishtimes.com
1) In Q4 2022, 40% of all sales were by landlords exiting the rental sector.
2) SCSI agents say the supply of rental units is at one of the lowest levels ever, and they do not believe the situation will improve in the short term.
3) 80% of agents believe that individual buy-to-let rental units being sold at present will not be replaced in the rental market in the next two years.
4) Three primary reasons for landlords exiting are: the complex and restrictive nature of rent regulations, landlords finding compliance with rented housing standards too onerous, and net rental returns too low.
Exodus of landlords behind 40pc of house sales as property prices set for massive slowdown
Four in 10 house sales were due to landlords exiting the market in the final three months of 2022.
www.independent.ie
Wave of small landlords exit as buy-to-lets make up 40% of property sales in Q4 -report
Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland predicts house prices to continue rising despite effects of inflation and higher interest rates
1) In Q4 2022, 40% of all sales were by landlords exiting the rental sector.
2) SCSI agents say the supply of rental units is at one of the lowest levels ever, and they do not believe the situation will improve in the short term.
3) 80% of agents believe that individual buy-to-let rental units being sold at present will not be replaced in the rental market in the next two years.
4) Three primary reasons for landlords exiting are: the complex and restrictive nature of rent regulations, landlords finding compliance with rented housing standards too onerous, and net rental returns too low.
Very much so - a good chunk of the current rental stock was bought at historically high prices from 2004-2007 so such owners may feel "now is the time to sell", especially if an even worse regime under a different government is looming a couple of years out.
You've also had a 20 year shift from practical zero standard and no enforcement to quite high standards and moderate enforcement, so what was seen as "easy pickings" in the past certainly isn't the case now.
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