Fair Deal/Nursing Homes Tax relief on additional nursing home payments

SGWidow

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157
My dad is on the FD scheme. In addition to his assessable income charge on the Fair Deal, he has to pay €250 per month in additional charges.

If I pay these additional charges for him, can I claim tax relief on them at my marginal rate?

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
 

Gordon Gekko

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5,212
My dad is on the FD scheme. In addition to his assessable income charge on the Fair Deal, he has to pay €250 per month in additional charges.

If I pay these additional charges for him, can I claim tax relief on them at my marginal rate?

Thanks in advance for any guidance!
Yes, you can.
 

SGWidow

Registered User
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157
A follow-up question for Gordon or other knowledgeable soul.....

If I pay part or all of my dad's FD contribution - i.e. over and above the NH expenses - do I also get tax relief?

Say, for example, say his income is €15,000 and his FD contribution is €12,000 and his expenses are €3,000

From the above, if I pay the €3k expenses, I can claim tax relief at my marginal rate.

If I pay a higher amount - up to the total €15k - do I still get tax relief at my marginal rate?

I understand that this might potentially have implications on
(a) the FD contribution amount as my dad would have more assets, and
(b) potentially CAT

For now, I am just looking to understand the tax position and whether paying part or all of my dad's FD contribution has any other implications.











 

Thirsty

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2,969
Can you explain what you mean by expenses?

You can't claim tax relief on (say) clothing, toiletries and the like.

You can claim for medical expenses / appliances, pharmacy costs.
 

_OkGo_

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221
If I pay these additional charges for him, can I claim tax relief on them at my marginal rate?
Yes you can but it must be clear that you are not in any way being reimbursed and you are bearing the cost, i.e. your father/mother (or anyone else) cannot transfer the money to you just so that you can claim the tax relief at your marginal rate.

From the above, if I pay the €3k expenses, I can claim tax relief at my marginal rate
Any additional costs that are medical can be claimed by you so again it must be clear what these are.

Obviously there are many things that the nursing home provide/facilitate such as hairdressing/laundry/social activities etc that are not eligible for any form of tax relief. You will need an itemized list of medical/non-medical expenses to allow you to distinguish what you can claim relief on.
 

SGWidow

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157
Thanks for the replies.

The €250 in extra charges are charges that the NH levies on a compulsory basis to all residents to cover the combined costs of various group therapies (aromatherapy, physiotherapy, etc.), continence wear, art and exercise classes, entertainment, etc.

It is not broken down and it is not itemised. It's just a global amount and this was the standard approach in all the NHs we reviewed prior to our choosing the one we did.

Hairdressing and laundry are separate and additional charges and not included in the €250 per month charge.

So I'm not sure what's now been said - if I pay this standard charge, is it tax deductible or not?!

The second question outstanding is can I pay some of my dad's fair deal contribution? Presumably, this is an allowable expense and therefore fully tax deductible?
 

Thirsty

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2,969
Social activities and personal grooming would not be tax deductible; physio / pharmacy / chiropodist would be.

If you pay part of the regular nursing home fee from your income, you can claim tax relief.
 

SGWidow

Registered User
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157
Hi Thirsty,

For the avoidance of doubt...…

Are disagreeing with Gordon? [I'm genuinely not trying to be funny, but I understand that he is a tax specialist.]

Also, are you saying that my dad's FD contribution is part of the regular NH fee and therefore I can pay it and claim tax relief on it?

If that is the position, then can't I simply say?

- I'll pay €3k of my dad's FD contribution?
- He'll pay the remaining €9k of the contribution and €3k obligatory additional charges?
 

Gordon Gekko

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5,212
Hi,

Anything you pay that’s part of the nursing home fee attracts relief at your marginal rate.

Extra social stuff or haircuts wouldn’t.

So the €250 we spoke about originally clearly does and so too would that extra FD you’re now talking about.

I don’t think anyone’s disagreeing, we’re just talking about different things.
 

Thirsty

Registered User
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2,969
Let's see if this helps (made up figures) - I think I have this right, but open to updates

I've left out the Fair deal loan and assumed Dad doesn't have savings just to make the figures easier.

Dad's weekly income (pension)Nursing Home Base FeeNursing Home Social ChargesNursing Home Pharmacy chargesFair Deal/ Dad BreakdownBalance from DadTax relief available
2002505030Dad (80%) weekly income
160
HSE pays 90 per week
50+30Dad can claim tax relief on all NH charges he pays in excess of HSE payment **


If you pay (say) the Pharmacy charges - you can claim the tax relief on that.

** updated based on OPs post.

This is not tax advice - YMMV!
 
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SGWidow

Registered User
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157
Thanks Gordon and Thirsty,

Let's not talk about different things!:) And let's use Thirsty's example above! [……...I'm sure poor Thirsty is wondering why he bothered trying to help me and is getting to the point of needing of a strong drink - if not already there!]

Per Thirsty's table, the NH social charge isn't really simply a social charge. Let's call in Charge X. It's an obligatory global fee that must be paid if you want to stay in the NH and is explained as being required to....

…….cover the combined costs of various group therapies (aromatherapy, physiotherapy, etc.), continence wear, art and exercise classes, entertainment, etc.

It is not broken down and it is not itemised. It's just a global amount and this was the standard approach in all the NHs we reviewed prior to our choosing the one we did.

The reason why I thought there was disagreement is because I think that Gordon is saying that if I pay Charge X, I can claim this as a NH expense and claim relief at 40%. In all of this, I haven't had the impression that Thirsty agrees with this point.

In any event, as I only want to pay a few hundred to my dad, the scenario I outlined in #9 seems to apply which is all I need as it satisfies my objective of giving my dad a few hundred euro per month and getting relief on it.

Thanks again guys....
 

Thirsty

Registered User
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2,969
You need the nursing home to break out their charges; medically required items such as incontinence pads will attract tax relief, arts & crafts won't

Update: OP posted that Revenue advise entire additional charge is available for tax relief.
 
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Early Riser

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The €250 in extra charges are charges that the NH levies on a compulsory basis to all residents to cover the combined costs of various group therapies (aromatherapy, physiotherapy, etc.), continence wear, art and exercise classes, entertainment, etc.

I think this is overcomplicated. The above is a charge to utilise the Nursing Home. It is a compulsory charge and part of the nursing home care package. You are entitled to claim Revenue relief on this. The Aromatherapy, Art Therapy, etc. are included.

You cannot claim on these:
Hairdressing and laundry are separate and additional charges and not included in the €250 per month charge.
 
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