Tax on Pensions

[Silversurfer]

View attachment 7293Very strange question that. Every single part of the health budget from GP budgets, to medicines bills, to days spent in hospital is significantly higher once you pass retirement age and naturally will be - we are living far longer with long term conditions that require treatment than ever before. No-one begrudges that and I hope it still there when I need it!

Looking at the age ratio for children vis a vis adults over 65 it is not a strange question. Do you have the figures for Ireland? All children up to and including 8 year olds have free GP cards. All children up to the age of 15 do not have to pay for hospital visits. All families earning up to €45,000 have GP cards. Older adults who need long term care are paying privately or through the fair deal. So to say anyone over the age of 65 is consuming more of the health budget is not correct.

 

[Silversurfer]

There's also an oft-repeated saying that the median person consumes 50% of their lifetime healthcare in their final year of life. I have no link or evidence to prove or disprove it but it certainly has rung true in the past in relation to some of my deceased relatives.

Were your relatives being cared for at home? The current trend is elderly relatives are being cared for in nursing homes and paying for their own care.

 

[azerty]

What is pretty certain is that the 10 billions spend for education is not used by the over 65.

 

[T McGibney]

Were your relatives being cared for at home? The current trend is elderly relatives are being cared for in nursing homes and paying for their own care.

I'm talking about healthcare, ie medical treatment, not nursing home care or being minded at home.

 

[fidelcastro]

What is pretty certain is that the 10 billions spend for education is not used by the over 65.

Please stop.My God.
You had your education. Are you begrudging children to have their chance?
It would be amazing if you can argue that children are more of a burden on the state than oge age pensioners.
Enjoy your retirement, let children others have a fair chance in life, you never know they might be changing your nappy in a few years.

 

[Silversurfer]

I'm talking about healthcare, ie medical treatment, not nursing home care or being minded at home.

Health care is given in nursing homes. Medical treatment too. There is a cost for this which is borne by the resident. Usually when a person is being minded at home when it becomes necessary for more intensive care the person is sent to hospital.

 

[azerty]

Please stop. You had your education. Are you begrudging children to have their chance?
It would be amazing if you can argue that children are more of a burden on the state than oge age pensioners.
Enjoy your retirement, let others have a fair crack of the wip

I am not retired at all. I have a fair crack at it! I have seriously enough though of constant begrudging. I have an issue with the fact that a part of society is just considered a burden.

 

[fidelcastro]

What is pretty certain is that the 10 billions spend for education is not used by the over 65.

No just of the HSE 22 billion is for the them, mostly free gratis, regardless of size of your wealth

 

[azerty]

I think I got your point. As I said I am not retired. I don't have it all for free either. But I do have children that benefit from the educational system. I know this has also a cost for society as well as benefits. And I also know that at some point I will probably have more use of the hse. As a note, medical cards for over 70 are currently mean tested.

 

[Marsupial]

Well if populism means not having 33% tax bills on foot of exempt thresholds that have either in the case of CGT been frozen for 20 years or have actually been cut substantially in the past 20 years, at a time when the exchequer has so much money it's struggling to find fripperies on which to spend it, bring it on.

Count your blessings. Not everyone in Ireland finds themselves in the fortunate position of having to pay CGT, regardless of the rate.

 

[Marsupial]

I am not retired at all. I have a fair crack at it! I have seriously enough though of constant begrudging. I have an issue with the fact that a part of society is just considered a burden.

Economically we (the over 66s) - are a burden on the economy. There's no getting away from that. Indeed, from the exchequer's point of view, the sooner that we move on so it can stop paying our pensions and hoover up some CAT from our badly-structured wills, the better!

 

[azerty]

Economically we (the over 66s) - are a burden on the economy. There's no getting away from that. Indeed, from the exchequer's point of view, the sooner that we move on so it can stop paying our pensions and hoover up some CAT from our badly-structured wills, the better!

I understand that. I am not that naive. However, that is part of society. Yes, it is a burden for the economy for a certain number of years, but it is also people who at some point contributed, had and raised the children that are now working and might contribute in over ways... I find that the language can quickly become quite simply ageist. I am not there, not an economic burden yet. Hopefully, I will be (for a long time)!

 

[T McGibney]

Health care is given in nursing homes. Medical treatment too. There is a cost for this which is borne by the resident. Usually when a person is being minded at home when it becomes necessary for more intensive care the person is sent to hospital.

Beside the point.

 

[T McGibney]

Count your blessings. Not everyone in Ireland finds themselves in the fortunate position of having to pay CGT, regardless of the rate.

This isn't about me personally. We've a small open economy, and an infrastructure investment deficit, particularly in housing. People and companies are not going to invest much here if they're being made liable to CGT at supertax levels even if their investments make nothing after inflation is discounted.

 

[Farma1]

Looking at the age ratio for children vis a vis adults over 65 it is not a strange question. Do you have the figures for Ireland? All children up to and including 8 year olds have free GP cards. All children up to the age of 15 do not have to pay for hospital visits. All families earning up to €45,000 have GP cards. Older adults who need long term care are paying privately or through the fair deal. So to say anyone over the age of 65 is consuming more of the health budget is not correct.

Please. I didn't say anyone. I said the average. Ireland doesn't publish the total data but I have given you the European data which Ireland will follow the same curve and the UK spend is here just in case that helps too (where GP care and meds are free for all children). I have never said anything derogatory and I don't see it at all as a burden - merely a natural phenomenon we have to plan for. A average kid with free GP care still sees the GP less than once per year and gets and antibiotic. As you get older, you see the GP more, and often take long term meds for blood pressure, cholesterol etc. You are also more likely to have a long term condition such as diabetes and you, on average, spend time in hospital than a child does, maybe with a hip replacement or heart op in there too. Then, sadly, the end of life is an expensive but necessary part of life. The treatments to both prolong life and to provide palliative care are more than the average child will spend on healthcare.

 

[Silversurfer]

Please. I didn't say anyone. I said the average. Ireland doesn't publish the total data but I have given you the European data which Ireland will follow the same curve and the UK spend is here just in case that helps too (where GP care and meds are free for all children). I have never said anything derogatory and I don't see it at all as a burden - merely a natural phenomenon we have to plan for. A average kid with free GP care still sees the GP less than once per year and gets and antibiotic. As you get older, you see the GP more, and often take long term meds for blood pressure, cholesterol etc. You are also more likely to have a long term condition such as diabetes and you, on average, spend time in hospital than a child does, maybe with a hip replacement or heart op in there too. Then, sadly, the end of life is an expensive but necessary part of life. The treatments to both prolong life and to provide palliative care are more than the average child will spend on healthcare.

View attachment 7294

This does not reflect the figures from the CSO which shows that the highest proportion of deaths 5201 occurred in private nursing homes. There were 1308 deaths in HSE residential care centres and 456 deaths in voluntary homes for elderly people.
Many older people also have private health insurance.

 

[roker]

Economically we (the over 66s) - are a burden on the economy. There's no getting away from that. Indeed, from the exchequer's point of view, the sooner that we move on so it can stop paying our pensions and hoover up some CAT from our badly-structured wills, the better!

The over 65s have paid their full PRSI contributions over their life time which originally was to cover Healthcare and pensions

 

[roker]

What do you think the allowance should be and who else should be paying the tax rises to for you to keep all the other benefits you have - the cost of which to to the state is increasing massively (healthcare, subsidised travel, household benefits package etc)

36k for an 80 year old couple (assuming your wife same age 'ish) sounds a reasonable amount to me before some basic rate tax starts to contribute to society? Your tax will be small at 20%.

 

[roker]

What do you think the allowance should be and who else should be paying the tax rises to for you to keep all the other benefits you have - the cost of which to to the state is increasing massively (healthcare, subsidised travel, household benefits package etc)

36k for an 80 year old couple (assuming your wife same age 'ish) sounds a reasonable amount to me before some basic rate tax starts to contribute to society? Your tax will be small at 20%.

Note that is tax included on my state pension

 

[Protocol]

The over 65s have paid their full PRSI contributions over their life time which originally was to cover Healthcare and pensions

PRSI is very little to do with healthcare.

The only healthcare benefit from PRSI is Treatment Benefit, i.e. optical and dental benefit.

There used to be a Health Levy.