"Taoiseach warns against energy price gouging in response to Middle East conflict" RTE News

[Inexpensive]

It's pretty tough on the oil distributor if they sell it at X today but buy it for more than X tomorrow before they deliver it.

But if they sell it at X today and the price goes down before they buy it, they gain.
Not a level playing field unless the customer equally has an opportunity to cancel.
Maybe they should offer a system similar to SP prices in racing where you pay the spot price at the time of delivery plus a markup.

 

[mathepac]

The Depot usually sets the price based on the dollar price of oil that day.

And what genius agreed to that get-rich-at-the-cost-of-the-consumer scheme? The distributors are selling from existing stocks bought at a known price. No-one wants to deny the distributors a fair margin but the existing arrangements are geared strictly to profiteers and profiteering. If new stocks are delivered to the distributors at higher costs then fair enough, the new higher prices get passed on.

One thing the bould Micko could do is to vary the VAT rate for consumers

Sorry I meant the excise duty rate payable on home-heating oil to try to stabilise the price to consumers in times of uncertainty.

 

[mathepac]

It's pretty tough on the oil distributor if they sell it at X today but buy it for more than X tomorrow before they deliver it.

That's the business the chose to be in. Why is it only fair that the consumer pays artificially inflated prices based on a stupid pricing arrangement? Change the pricing model immediately so it applies only to newly purchased stocks, using emergency legislation if necessary.

 

[Shelby219]

More rubbish this morning by Minister Peter Burke about prices, saying the fuel prices aren't relating to the Oil price and are going to be investigated. Do they even ask someone in the industry first how things are priced, if you only go on to Bloomberg and look at commodity prices, you will see different crude oil prices and then scroll down and you will see refined fuel prices, NYMEX Gasoline is the nearest to petrol
and ICE Gasoil is the nearest to diesel , and give an indication of the refined fuel prices, even though it's a different exchange, they also did an investigation at the time of the invasion in Ukraine and sent out CCPC forms for retailers to fill in but nothing came of it and was never mentioned again when they realized they were wrong about the pricing!

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I was wondering if it would be worth contacting RTE's newly appointed Clarity Correspondent

RTÉ announces the Appointments of new Clarity Correspondent and Policy & Analysis Correspondent – About RTÉ

RTÉ News & Current Affairs has today announced the new appointments of journalists Kate McDonald as Clarity Correspondent and Louise Byrne as Policy & Analysis Correspondent with Prime Time. Clarity is RTÉ’s focus on disinformation, discourse, and democracy. RTÉ News and Current Affairs has...

about.rte.ie

Clarity is RTÉ’s focus on disinformation, discourse, and democracy. RTÉ News and Current Affairs has appointed journalist Kate McDonald to the new role of Clarity Correspondent to strengthen coverage across all platforms focused on the growing challenge posed by false and misleading information online. As people spend increasing amounts of time online, more than ever they are encountering false narratives and AI generated deepfake content that can be widely shared posing a threat to our democratic norms.

As RTÉ’s Clarity Correspondent, Kate will deliver reports focusing on the origins, impact and evolution of information which misleads or misdirects public discourse and will be responsible for investigating such narratives across a range of briefs from politics to health and global affairs.


When RTE does not report fairly on a matter, maybe it's worth contacting her? Although, I suspect that the answer will be "My role is to highlight the origins of misleading information from sources other than RTE - if you feel that RTE is misleading people, go to the Complaints Department".

 

[Purple]

And what genius agreed to that get-rich-at-the-cost-of-the-consumer scheme?

If the price is set at the refinery price (as clarified by @Shelby219) then they take the hit when the price drops and they are holding more expensive stock and they take the gain when the price increases and they have cheaper stock. There is also a cost relating to holding the stock. The depot has running costs and there is a significant amount of capital tied up.
If there is some fat to be eaten around the margins I'm sure they do so but their business model is based on selling the product for a margin, not playing the market. Their sales model just tried to limit their commodity fluctuation risk. I'm not saying that they are or are not making large profits but if they do I doubt it's due to playing the market.

 

[Shelby219]

My last example I'll give, when the government reduced the excise by 20c litre during the Ukraine war , they said you should see the price go down immediately at the pump, but if you had a delivery the day before, there was no reduction, it wasn't on stock held by retailers it was on the next delivery from that date and yet we heard the same price gouging accusations and on a product where the profit is in single figure cents not percentage!

 

[joe sod]

The goveenment is trying to deflect blame for the surge in energy prices onto the retailers and fuel producers but they are the biggest culprits for high energy prices with the huge tax take and carbon taxes. Even though the energy suppliers are taking advantage with iran thr government are still taking the biggest cut from those price increases . Dont be fooled by their teatrics over energy retailers and price gouging.

 

[Purple]

The goveenment is trying to deflect blame for the surge in energy prices onto the retailers and fuel producers but they are the biggest culprits for high energy prices with the huge tax take and carbon taxes. Even though the energy suppliers are taking advantage with iran thr government are still taking the biggest cut from those price increases . Dont be fooled by their teatrics over energy retailers and price gouging.

Carbon Tax accounts for around 10% of the cost.
Total taxes (VAT, Excise and Carbon) account for around 50-65% of the cost of Petrol and Diesel and around 20-25% for Home Heating Oil. The VAT rate on Kerosene (home heating oil) is 13.5% and the Excise is one tenth of what it is on petrol and diesel (€50.73/1,000L for Kerosene and €587.71/1,000L for petrol).

Due to the fact that we have so much one-off housing we are far more reliant on Kerosene than the UK. 45% of our homes use Kerosene. 4% f UK homes use it.
We also have a nonsensical opposition to Nuclear power and shifted to Gas and tried to ramp up renewables instead of being pragmatic and sustainable at the same time. That has left us as the country in the EU which is most reliant on Gas while also being one of the few which has no LNG storage capacity.
Basically we have arrived at this point due to stupid planning laws which allowed massive amounts of one-off housing and non existent strategic planning which has left us very exposed and vulnerable to commodity price fluctuations.

If you live in a one-off house which is heated by Kerosene then tough luck. You shouldn't have got planning permission for the house in the first place so stop complaining because your unsustainable house which has placed an economic and environmental burden on your fellow citizens is now expensive to heat.

 

[Sister Sara]

The website of 2 of my local kerosene providers are not available for ordering on-line. Coincidence?

This from oilprices.ie

 

[Fortune]

but they are the biggest culprits for high energy prices with the huge tax take and carbon taxes.

We'd still be seeing large increases if there was no tax.

 

[joe sod]

We'd still be seeing large increases if there was no

Yes of course but because our government takes such a large chunk in tax, 60% is tax, every large increase in underlying fuel has to have another 60% added on top to hand to government. That is why the EU told all the governments to reduce energy taxes in order to remove some of the inflationary strain. The silence from our government on that though is deafening.

 

[Purple]

Excise is a fixed tax. It does not increase or decrease with the commodity price. VAT is a percentage tax so it has a multiplying effect on fuel prices and therefore on inflation.

The big inflationary factor is the cost of electricity generation. The VAT rate on electricity has been cut from 13.5% to 9%. Even if it was reduced to zero it's not going to have a material effect on prices. The problem is our over reliance on Gas for power generation and our lack of energy security and alternative generation capability.

 

[mathepac]

Petrol €1.959 last night locally.

 

[Purple]

Diesel was over €2 last night near Tallaght.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Diesel is €2.12 in Kilkenny - the third price rise in less than a week smacks of a bit of profiteering if you ask me!

 

[joe sod]

Diesel is €2.12 in Kilkenny - the third price rise in less than a week smacks of a bit of profiteering if you ask me

Average Diesel £1.55 in UK now according to BBC, of course its up alot due to the global oil shock, that translates to 1.80 euros, the extra 25c to 30c per litre is due to irish government extra taxes . Thats where the pressure needs to be exerted , the government and revenue are the ones effectively "profiteering"

 

[Protocol]

Average Diesel £1.55 in UK now according to BBC, of course its up alot due to the global oil shock, that translates to 1.80 euros, the extra 25c to 30c per litre is due to irish government extra taxes . T

Excise duty on petrol and diesel in the UK is 52.95 pence, which is 61 cent per litre.

Excise duty here is below UK rates. Excise duty on petrol here is 54.184 cent.

It is only when we add the 16.43 cent carbon tax, that the total exceeds UK rates, at 70.61 cent for petrol.

So our fixed taxes are about 10 cent more per litre, on petrol, compared to the UK.

 

[Purple]

Excise duty on petrol and diesel in the UK is 52.95 pence, which is 61 cent per litre.

Excise duty here is below UK rates. Excise duty on petrol here is 54.184 cent.

It is only when we add the 16.43 cent carbon tax, that the total exceeds UK rates, at 70.61 cent for petrol.

So our fixed taxes are about 10 cent more per litre, on petrol, compared to the UK.

The VAT rate on petrol in the UK is 20%, ours is 23%.

 

[peemac]

Media goes on about oil prices all the time - it would be like the punter talking about newsprint prices and asking why a newspaper has gone up in price. Refining is the cost that is not as visible as the oil price and it varies wildly over the year and when there are geopolitical issues.

Last Monday refining charges for diesel went from about $25 to over $40 and then headed towards $60 before coming back a little to $50 for a barrel of oil. For petrol it actually dropped slightly to $8. For Kerosene & Jet fuel it was even higher, hitting $70 at one point. This is because about 30% of kerosene and jet fuel comes from the middle east and not one drop of that is available at present.

That jump is in addition to the oil price increase. Double whammy for diesel users

I'd have a lot of sympathy for oil distributors. They have dreadfully basic ordering systems that don't track their own stock and they carry very little stock in their tanks as they can easily replenish daily from Dublin, Galway, Foynes or Cork. Add to that we are in March and many people are using less and looking forward to summer and not looking to order kero. Hence hundreds of orders and very little stock and no choice but to cancel orders or face a massive loss as the price they are paying jumped first thing Monday.

Currently "road diesel" is trading at $1.12 a litre. About 98c. Duty is 43c, carbon is 19c, NORA is 2c, lets say 15c for importer/retail, and add vat @ 23%. That's a forecourt price of €2.17.


As for Lynn Boylans statement about prices rising here quicker. - Yep, by a few hours. Continental order systems seem to have stock levels built in, so prices didn't rise - however I do know that in Germany you simply could not order as it was sold out and the prices were updated on Tuesday.

sinn fein will never miss an opportunity - somehow I doubt they will announce next week that European prices increased at a massively higher level than Irish prices because the stats are taken from Monday morning prices.