Summons for speeding ticket

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Gabriel

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It never rains but it pours...

I received a summons to the district court last night in the post for a speeding offence on the M1 last October (2006).

Speeding offence - that's fine. My first ever...happy to pay for it. Well not happy but prepared to pay for it!

The thing is this is the first I've ever heard about it. I never received anything prior to the summons. Am I right in saying that the court summons is related to non-payment of fixed charge fine within specified time period?

What are my chances of pleading this with the Gardai in question noted on the summons? I'd be happy to pay the fine now and not have to go to court.

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Yep you should have received the fixed charge (by ordinary post) - is the address correct on the summons and same as on driving licence? You would have had up to 56 days to pay before it went out the payment period and into summons. Payment cant be made at all now unfortunately. Unless you had really good reasons to speed I doubt the Gardai will back off and you may have no choice but leave it to court and hope a kind judge will accept the lost in post theory but its been widely tried and not usually liable to receive the judge's sympathy I think! Best of luck with it.
 
tinkerbell said:
Yep you should have received the fixed charge (by ordinary post) - is the address correct on the summons and same as on driving licence?
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No...my licence would have my old address but the address on the summons was obviously correct.

tinkerbell said:
Payment cant be made at all now unfortunately.
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Do you know is this the law?

tinkerbell said:
Unless you had really good reasons to speed I doubt the Gardai will back off
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I'm not expecting him to back off...merely let me pay the fine.


tinkerbell said:
Best of luck with it.
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Thanks...
 
This happened me as well two years ago.

I went into the court when I got the summons and spoke with the registrar or semobody in the public office and explained the case to him and he told me that I would have to turn up to court on the day of my summons and explain to the judge what the story was and it would then be up to the judge to decide what my fate was.

He did say that the chances of him changing anything would be slim though so I didn't bother wasting my time turning up on the day for some oaf to tell me he didn't believe me.

I got a fine of €100 and 4 penalty points which I was notified of through the post. I threw the fine in the bin and I got another summons a few months later for non payment of the fine which I also threw in the bin.

I haven't heard from them since (I have since moved house but that was 11 months after the court date)

So thats what I did. Unfortunately you are going to have to pay the fine and take the points, unless you spend €500+ on a solicitor to try and change it for you!!

Or throw the whole lot in the bin and forget about it. ;)
 
Ballyman said:
Or throw the whole lot in the bin and forget about it. ;)
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Thanks Ballyman - I'm not brave enough to do this :)

The system seems dreadfully flawed when you can get dragged into court for not receiving one letter through the post!
 
"No...my licence would have my old address but the address on the summons was obviously correct". Now the problem is your notice obviously went to the old address and was returned to the fines dept. where it was updated and then the summons arrived at the new address I believe. You really are supposed to have the up to date address on the licence so that won't help in court possibly. And again sadly I know for fact that once the 56 days go by absolutely no payment can be made as the matter is out of the fines office hands and into the courts. Depends on the judge - some can't be bothered but others can come down hard, especially as your licence wasn't in the correct new address. But don't despair, many a case has been thrown out on the day so its all down to luck I'm afraid.
 
tinkerbell said:
"No...my licence would have my old address but the address on the summons was obviously correct". Now the problem is your notice obviously went to the old address and was returned to the fines dept. where it was updated and then the summons arrived at the new address I believe. You really are supposed to have the up to date address on the licence so that won't help in court possibly. And again sadly I know for fact that once the 56 days go by absolutely no payment can be made as the matter is out of the fines office hands and into the courts. Depends on the judge - some can't be bothered but others can come down hard, especially as your licence wasn't in the correct new address. But don't despair, many a case has been thrown out on the day so its all down to luck I'm afraid.
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The fine never arrived at my old address either. My old address is my parents address and I regularly receive post from there. No fine though.

At this point I'm actually verging on angry at having to attend court. It seems our court system works on the presumption of guilt. You probably received the fine and chose to ignore it so we're bringing you to court. How can anyone assume you ignore a fine without sending the original fine by registered post?

Thanks for all the responses so far. If anyone has further insights please reply. In the meantime I'm going to get onto the Fixed Charge Processing Office in Capel Street and the District Court Clerk. If I have no luck with either of them I'll be getting onto the Minister for Transport (Seamus Brennan?). I'm beginning to strongly dislike the farce that appears to be our legal system.
 
I think the fact you can prove it never ever arrived at your parents address at all should help prove it did get lost in the post or the system! Usually they are sent to old address at flats, etc. where maybe people never bothered or were able to forward them. I'm going to pm you a few thoughts!
 
I'm sorry tinkerbell but the address on the licence is not the the one that is used. How do they know who's driving and thus who's licence to check- I am assuming it was a camera shot and that you were not actually stopped for the speeding? The address that would be used is the address to which the car is registered. Might you have changed your car shortly before the speeding date?
It's worth giving the guard on the summons a ring and see what he/she has to say.
 
niceoneted said:
I'm sorry tinkerbell but the address on the licence is not the the one that is used. How do they know who's driving and thus who's licence to check- I am assuming it was a camera shot and that you were not actually stopped for the speeding? The address that would be used is the address to which the car is registered. Might you have changed your car shortly before the speeding date?
It's worth giving the guard on the summons a ring and see what he/she has to say.
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I think you're right...it would have been sent to my new address alright. The thing is I do live in a high density apt and I do regularly enough receive neighbours post...so it's not exactly beyond the realms of possibility yadda yadda...

I changed to the car in question in September. I was travelling a lot on business last October and got caught coming back from the airport one night. It was me though alright...
Was not stopped and the picture is of the front of my car so must have been garda in a bush!

I will be ringing the guard tomorrow and also following up with Tinkerbell's idea that was pm'd. Thanks again for all the advice. Having never been brought to court for anything prior to this I was a little freaked at the thought last night.
Bar bribing the judge on the day though I'll be doing everything in my power to escape without having to endure the full 4 penalty points.
 
RainyDay said:
http://www.transport.ie/about/OurMinisters.asp?lang=ENG&loc=1219 (not any more)
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Right...him so ;)

I contacted the Fixed Charge Processing Office this morning and pleaded my case. Nice Garda on the other end of the line...seemed very surprised that I hadn't received the fine...kept just saying..."well it was sent out last November"!! As if that makes any difference. Gave me the number for the court and spoke to a clerk there who said that I had no way of paying the fine now. Have to ring back two days before the case to see if the Garda has crossed the T's and it's actually going to go ahead. I tried to say that I didn't think that even the possibility was fair but hey...what's the point arguing with a clerk!

So I'm in two minds now...do I contact the Garda in question? He'll take one look at my BMW and probably think...that ****** I'm going to take him to court :( So maybe I should just stay shtumm and hope that he doesn't turn up etc...

In the meantime I may write to the Minister anyway. It's farcical that our legal process seems to hinge on An Post (of all organisations) delivering post to people!!!
 
Gabriel said:
In the meantime I may write to the Minister anyway. It's farcical that our legal process seems to hinge on An Post (of all organisations) delivering post to people!!!
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I had no idea this was the case. How can the onus be put on you to prove you didn't receive something? You can't prove a negative. I can't believe letters like this aren't registered. I have in the past received letters/documents that are much less important than this - and they were hand delivered/signed for via same day delivery (!)

Your situation is a complete joke - best of luck - and definitely complain!
 
Caveat said:
I had no idea this was the case. How can the onus be put on you to prove you didn't receive something? You can't prove a negative. I can't believe letters like this aren't registered. I have in the past received letters/documents that are much less important than this - and they were hand delivered/signed for via same day delivery (!)

Your situation is a complete joke - best of luck - and definitely complain!
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Thanks...I'm penning the letter as we speak!
 
Eh, think you'll find the Minister for Justice is the man to write to on this one.

Not sure what the Dept of Transport has to do with gardai and courts?
 
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I was stopped for driving through a red light at a pedestrian crossing (I was day-dreaming). It was a fair cop as they say.
I produced my driving licence the next day but didn't get the fine notification. After five weeks I rang the fixed fines office and they said they would resend it. A week later it hadn't arrived and I was away the following week. When I got back it was there and I sent off the cheque (for €120 for late payment) but it was sent back with a letter saying that they couldn't process it. I called the fixed fines office and was transferred to Harcourt street where they said a summons had been issued and I would have to turn up on the day but not to worry, my calls had been logged and do had my attempt to pay so the judge should just stick with the two penalty points and the €120.

My advice would be to go to court and tell the truth. It's better than having it hanging over you.
 
Caveat said:
I had no idea this was the case. How can the onus be put on you to prove you didn't receive something? You can't prove a negative. I can't believe letters like this aren't registered. I have in the past received letters/documents that are much less important than this - and they were hand delivered/signed for via same day delivery (!)

Your situation is a complete joke - best of luck - and definitely complain!
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Well, just to further pour water on your expectations, see this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,,2115130,00.html#article_continue

Note that the court held that by dint of using a vehicle, that you have acceeded to a lower 'quality of justice' by dint of defaulting you to guilty. Doesn't bold well for the camera contract out to tender here, btw........

My main gripe is with this part of the article: The court also noted that anyone who chose to own or drive a car knew that they subjected themselves to a regulatory regime imposed because the possession and use of cars was recognised to have the potential to cause grave injury.
"Those who choose to keep and drive cars could be taken to have accepted certain responsibilities and obligations as part of the regulatory regime relating to motor vehicles, and in the legal framework of the United Kingdom those responsibilities included the obligation, in the event of suspected commission of road traffic offences, to inform the authorities of the identity.

If cameras were invented first, and were in use before motor car use, they may have a point. How they could possibly make such a ruling given that cars pre-date camera's by 100 years is, quite simply, incomprehensible.........

Next time you're afforded the opportunity to vote yes/no on an EU subject, add the loss of this right as further reason to vote No.
 
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