Sudan

Z

Zeus

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"U.N. Council divided on sanctions in Sudan's Darfur"

The below link briefly describes the ethnic cleansing taking place in Sudan. Note the UN's vacillation as people are being slaughtered.
 
We can do very little about it, but we can all write letters. A sample letter is available at the Amnesty Ireland site. One letter makes no difference perhaps, but letters from thousands of people most certainly will.
 
re.Sudan

The UN, as we all know, has no army so the only way it can send in peace Keepers is if a member state will supply troops. No arab or muslim country will do this as they would have to fight fellow muslims. No local black african power will be let in by the Sudanise government and no European power had the logistical capacity or taste for the body bags that would follow.
Colin Powel dragged Kofi Annan over there a few weeks ago so please God the Americans will yet again do the worlds dirty work and we will all sit up nice and straight and be ready to wag our fingers if and when they screw things up.
 
Re: re.Sudan

The UN, as we all know, has no army so the only way it can send in peace Keepers is if a member state will supply troops

Or a number of member states.

Colin Powel dragged Kofi Annan over there a few weeks ago so please God the Americans will yet again do the worlds dirty work and we will all sit up nice and straight and be ready to wag our fingers if and when they screw things up.
First of all, what's happening in Sudan right now is horrific. If the US were to unilaterally go in and sort it out I wouldn't mind. Purely because the inaction of the UN is a disgrace and action is needed yesterday over there.
However, what I'd like to see is a stronger, more decisive UN so that unilateral injunctions are neither necessary nor allowed and strict penalties brought to bear on any member state indulging in acts of war not sanctioned by the UN.

That said, this idea that no one should wag their fingers at the US for wrong doing is ridiculous. Zeus (just using him as an example because he started this post) rightly wagged his finger at the UN. Who are we to wag our finger at the UN??? Well...we're citizens of this planet and as a result we have every right to wag our finger at any injustices we see. The US holds a unique position in the world. They are the sole super-power. They have set themselves up as the world's watchdogs. Therefore they must be held accountable for any wrongs they might be guilty of. I, or you, or Zeus, or anyone else for that matter has every right to wag their fingers at the US or any other government for that matter if we so please...especially if it's in relation to injustice.
 
It's amazing how the US always seems to get involved with every crisis to hit the world, people are now urging the US to send troops to the region of Sudan.. this is due mainly to the estimated 30,000 people already dead and 100,000 in serious danger.A catastrophic disaster waiting to happen... but
where are all the fantastic world peace marcher's that we had out protesting against the invasion of Iraq in Dublin's city center and all over the country.. why are the not out marching against the government backed malita that are killing and starving all these innocent people... the innocent people we cared so much about in Iraq that we took to the streets..
We never protested against Saddam when he gassed 200,000
Kurds..... very similar situations i think...
Just highlights the ignorance and double standards shown by Irish people...
 
Just highlights the ignorance and double standards shown by Irish people...

Does it?
It wasn't just the killing of Iraqi people that Irish people have protested about in Iraq...it was what many people saw as a war peddled to the world as something it was clearly not.

The demonstrations across the world were a message to their governments over their anger at their part in the war. In our case it was linked not only to Shannon but also directed at the US given our close links with America.

In saying all this we should probably try to keep this discussion on Sudan as we already have a topic on the US.
 
Fair point piggy, i am not for a minute backing Bush for his war on Iraq, i agree it was wrong and injust.. but the Iraqi people where suffering unparrelled torture and mis-treatment..
Saddam himself lived in unreal wealth while the rest lived in huts... My simple point is Saddam committed exactly the same attrocites as in Sudan.. but when the US lead coalition went in to over throw Saddam we took to the streets.. why are we not doing it now...
I understand Bush was not thinking of the people of Iraq when he went in.. but considering our close ties with the US and the Irish that died in 9/11 i think it was wrong to protest.
Some people will say it was not the US's place to over throw Saddam... but as has been seen the UN stand for F all in word politics...Just feel the world slate America when it suits but then calls for them in the hour of need.
 
why are we not doing it now...

You're right...we should be. We should be out protesting at the UN's lack of initiative in sorting out this problem. However, there are groups that are at least trying to do something about the situation the world over and urging people to help get aid to these people.
 
People go to the streets when they feel that they can make a change.
We surely made our point that day.

If there was world wide marches organised to protest the lack of intervention in Sudan, I believe there would be a large turnout!

On a side point, I personally think you can not compare the two. What happened in Iraq was much worse, and as I have said before, Bush is much more dangerous than Saddam ever was.
It was quite possible that the war in Iraq could have (and indeed may) destablise the entire region. If this happens, and war breaks out, we could see the likes of Iran, Jordan, Syria declare war on Israel. If this was to happen, you can be sure that Israel would use her secret nuclear weapons and blow them all away. What state is the world in then.
 
If there was world wide marches organised to protest the lack of intervention in Sudan, I believe there would be a large turnout!
Click to expand...

So are the clowns here unable to organise a protest march on their own?
 
Not only answering who the clowns here are, can you also tell me what would happen of 1million people here marched down O Connell street? I tell you - nothing.
It would probably be in the newspapers around the world in the middle of the paper. Thats about it. We would be ignored.

Can you explain to me how I would go about organising an international march? I need about 50 countries, each with over 100k in each march.
 
Have to agree with HamSlicer, can the clowns that marched against the US invasion of Iraq not organise a another march.
Point is they cant cause at the moment it fashionable to follow the anti - US feeling... sad really like all these so called peace organisations they are mearly fashion icons and utter hypocrites. They stand for nothing ... no meaning and no substance.. far more innocent lives have already been killed in Sudan but where are all the hero's now..... no where.

And Maceface to say Iraq is a far more serious situation than Sudan , you must be joking... hundreds of thousends will die in Sudan... unlike Iraq.. and you clearly dont read the paper.. did you not see the torture Saddam put his people through.. published in a sunday paper...
 
Ownsy,

Did you read my entire post. I gave my reasons of why Iraq was more serious than Sudan.
I did not say Sudan was not serious.
I am sick of people taking snippets of my posts and giving them new contexts.
Again, the reason Iraq is/was worse - it could cause a nuclear war.
 
Fair point Maceface, i am sorry just sick of people in this country jumping on the Anti American band wagon.. we never done it before... ie 1st Gulf war, bosnia, kosovo.. all wars in which the US lead from the front.. but in todays world we go out and protest against them... i dislike Bush completely but would have to stand on behalf of the American people.. think we owe them a lot... eg our economy and our ancestors.

Cant believe we would protest against a country that lost 3,500 people in a terrorist attack...
 
we never done it before... ie 1st Gulf war, bosnia, kosovo.. all wars in which the US lead from the front.. but in todays world we go out and protest against them

Vietnam

Cant believe we would protest against a country that lost 3,500 people in a terrorist attack...

Iraq had nothing to do with 911.
 
.....

Saddam Hussein financed the families of suicide bombers in Israel. He invaded Kuwait. Gulf war 2 finished what Gulf war 1 should have done.
 
Re: .....

Surprisingly interesting thread, this. The problem is that we all (more or less) agree that the situation in Sudan is appalling and "something should be done" Those of us of a liberal/left leaning would particularly tend to subscribe to this view. BUT, the only outfit with the ability to "do something" is the good old US of A...........problem........standard liberal/left policy is that USA = bad, USA military capability = worse and USA "intervention" in foreign countries = imperialism, oppression, economic hegemony etc etc. So we can't have that then. What to do??? Scratch head and think?? Ah, got it. Eureka!! What about if there WAS a regional force capable of intervention. A militarily STRONG force totally independent of US control. Better still, under the control of all the democratic States of europe. Operating under nice European politics and values and not nasty American ones. Such a force could bring stability to many troubled regions on europes borders, the Balkans, Caucusus, North Africa. Maybe even (in time) the Middle East! It could be done. Quite straightforward. A deepening of the links between EU states. Genuine internationalism. Relinquishing outdated notions of nation state sovereignty. Would cost a fair bit but what price human life and dignity? After all, taking responsibility for one's fellow occupants of the planet requires taking responsibility for their protection. Doesn't it. All standard liberal/lefty kinda stuff.

So why the f@*& do the words EUROPEAN ARMY evoke such a hysterical response???????
 
Piggy, if you think Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 then you surprise me... if you think he was not harbouring these scum then you need to take a long hard look at yourself, i you think alomost ever Arab nation is that region is not finacailly backing these scum then you honestly see the world through tinted glasses.
That said i agree with you on Bush that he was wrong to invaded for the so called WMD etc etc but the US , Brits and Co felt Saddam had to be got rid of.. i bet in years to come Iraq will be a better place.
 
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