Key Post Successfully appealed NIB's increase in rate on investment property

Bronte

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14,165
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg


Surely after the ombudsman ruling aginst them in 3 cases they should do the decent thing and revert all those affected mortgages to their original terms and conditions? Does the ombudsman need to actually direct them to do so in everyone's case?

Doing the decent thing is not in banking lingo.

The ombudsman should not need to direct them if they operated any kind of proper code of conduct. They really seem to operate in a parallel universe.

It wouldn't be very difficult for the Ombudsman to find out how many letters were sent out and then ask NIB had they reversed them. If you get to the ombudsman stage Marg you might ask his office this.
 

Butter

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602
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

It wouldn't be very difficult for the Ombudsman to find out how many letters were sent out and then ask NIB had they reversed them. If you get to the ombudsman stage Marg you might ask his office this.


It will be interesting to see if they let my complaint go as far as the Ombudsman again, considering he has ruled against them 3 times already in the same circumstances.

If it gets to that stage I will ask the Ombudsman to ask NIB to do exactly as you suggest Bronte. If what they have done is wrong in the case of one (or three) customers then it must be wrong in all cases.
 

Tomorrow

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Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi all

Like all of you I find it unbelievable that NIB were not directed to correct this situation with all affected customers.

Just an update on my case, following my refusal to enter mediation the ombudsman has just written to me to tell me that he has written to NIB and they have 20 days to respond.

I will let you know how I get on. On another note, I applied for a business loan with NIB recently to purchase a small practice, (I am an accountant) - it was for €15,000 and I was turned down as the bank saw it as being too risky, am wondering if I was turned down due to my complaint to the ombudsman!!!
 

Bronte

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Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

I've always thought it was best not to tackle a bank because they put you in the 'black book' and anyway you can't beat them because it's David versus Goliath. Maybe I'm paranoid, but only bankers can tell if they put a special symbol or sign on a person's account which means that they will do no more business with you.

15K to purchase a business is a very very small amount, can't believe you were refused particularly if you home to mortgage ratio is good and if you earn a decent wage or even a half decent wage.
 

Tomorrow

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Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Bronte

They didnt even get as far as to ask me what I earned. Never looked at practice accounts etc

They asked me all about the practice, went straight to the people who make the decisions in Dublin and came back and said the bank thought it was too risky!!

One of the reasons they gave was that there was a possibility that I could loose the 30 clients I was buying, there was no guarantee, very strange.
 

10amwalker

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Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

I think I may be in the same category but with a slight twist on the situations outlined above. I took out a fixed three year Mortgage in June 2006 on an investment property and the term was to finish in May 2009.

My documents state:
Fixed rate: Roll-over date: 1 May 2009. The Roll-over Date is the start date of the standard variable interest rate at that time. Unless a further Fixed period is agreed in accordance with clause 11.3, at the end of a Fixed Period the rate of interest applicable to the Loan will revert to our then applicable variable home loan rate.

During 2006, 2007 and 2008- my statements read: Fixed Rate Home Loan at rate of 3.95 %.

But as in the case of the other posters my Fixed Rate Home Loan changed to a Variable Rate Investment Mortgage in May 2009 at a rate of 4.15%.

Do you think I have a case- I feel I do.........
 

twofor1

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Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Do you think I have a case

Your documentation clearly states unless you agree a further fixed period your loan will revert to the variable home loan rate.

Your loan has reverted to the higher investment rate.

You have a case.
 

DingDing

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269
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Got the money finally credited to my account.

Not only did I not get any compensation etc... but I had to wait several weeks and a follow up letter to get the money credited to my account.

Sorry to hear that you were turned down for the loan to expand your practice Tomorrow.

Would any other bank be willing to fund your expansion.
 

Tomorrow

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Messages
187
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi DingDing

I am not going to approach any other bank, instead I have gone back to the retiring practitioner and asked for quarterly payments instead of two annual payments, I am hoping to be able to fund this from cashflow.

He has indicated that he is agreeable to this so fingers crossed!!

Tomorrow
 

Butter

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Messages
602
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Do you think I have a case- I feel I do.........

I think you would have a case, paticularly if they have quoted that your loan will revert to the variable home loan rate not a new rate they have devised for investment properties in the meantime, and called variable rate investment mortgage.
 

Butter

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Messages
602
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi Tomorrow,
I'm glad you seem to have sorted things out ok. I could well believe that banks have a black mark beside some people's name. Would be very interesting to talk to a banker to find out if it could be true!

Well, I have received my first response back from NIB where they say "I queried the interest rate being applied to my investment housing loan".

The bank considers that they continue to treat the loan in accordance with the terms of the original offer and will be unable to accede to my request to change the interest rate to the variable rate home loan.

So, although the bank has been told by the Ombudman three times that what they have done in changing the rates on these loans is wrong, they are determined to try to hold the line unless forced to make alterations in each individual case.

According to the complaints procedure I now have to write to the branch manager. Now that the Ombudsman has published the example of previous cases do you think it is worthwhile quoting from his report in my next letter? I'd value opinions on this one....
 

Tomorrow

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187
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi Marg

That sounds exactly like the first letter I got back from NIB.

I would quote the ombudsman report in your next letter to them.

It might save you having to go all the way to the ombudsman if they realise that you are aware of the report and its findings.

I hope your case gets settled quickly.
 

DingDing

Registered User
Messages
269
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi Tomorrow,
I'm glad you seem to have sorted things out ok. I could well believe that banks have a black mark beside some people's name. Would be very interesting to talk to a banker to find out if it could be true!

Well, I have received my first response back from NIB where they say "I queried the interest rate being applied to my investment housing loan".

The bank considers that they continue to treat the loan in accordance with the terms of the original offer and will be unable to accede to my request to change the interest rate to the variable rate home loan.

So, although the bank has been told by the Ombudman three times that what they have done in changing the rates on these loans is wrong, they are determined to try to hold the line unless forced to make alterations in each individual case.

According to the complaints procedure I now have to write to the branch manager. Now that the Ombudsman has published the example of previous cases do you think it is worthwhile quoting from his report in my next letter? I'd value opinions on this one....



I found the link here.

http://www.financialombudsman.ie/case-studies/November-09-case-studies.pdf

Page 12. Appears only 3 people raised this issue and all 3 appear to be on this discussion forum.
 
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Bronte

Registered User
Messages
14,165
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi Marg

That sounds exactly like the first letter I got back from NIB.

I would quote the ombudsman report in your next letter to them.

It might save you having to go all the way to the ombudsman if they realise that you are aware of the report and its findings.

I hope your case gets settled quickly.

I'd actually play it differently. I would not mention the ombudsman at all and I'd go all the way and then when I got to the ombudsman I'd ask him to throw the book at NIB. I'd also ask him to find out from NIB how many other people this applies to and request that he order NIB to rectify all customers they have overcharged.

I still can't understand why no one has received an apology nor compensation for overcharging. Actually it's theft plain and simple. NIB had to sit down and decide to change the contracts by having a meeting about it, so they know exactly what they were doing and they knew it was wrong. They probably had their legal people in on the meeting for advice to boot. I'd like to see the minutes of that meeting but I suppose they're in the shredder.

A proactive ombudsman would ask for the minutes and memos and emails of how the decision was taken to change the interest rate name and the reasoning behind it. Especially if the changing is systematic rather than an error.
 

twofor1

Registered User
Messages
1,503
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

According to the complaints procedure I now have to write to the branch manager. Now that the Ombudsman has published the example of previous cases do you think it is worthwhile quoting from his report in my next letter? I'd value opinions on this one....

You should simply say your terms and conditions state that your loan is a Variable Rate Home Loan and the interest rate applicable is the Home Loan Rate. (If this like mine is what it says)

As a result of the changes made in February to your terms and conditions you are now seriously disadvantaged, as the investment rate is .75% higher the home loan rate you always had.

You want this loan to revert back to its original Variable Rate Home Loan with the interest rate applicable being the Home Loan Rate as per the terms and conditions that you both signed up to on the xx/xx/xxxx

If NIB refuse this and issue a final response stating the internal complaints procedure is now exhausted, you then put your case to the Ombudsman.
 

Butter

Registered User
Messages
602
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

I have drafted my letter to the bank manager restating my reasons why I believe the interest rate on my investment mortgage should be changed to the same rate charged to home loans as per the original contract.

I have not mentioned the Ombudsman's report as I thought it would be better to do things "properly" and go through the correct procedure for complaints in NIB.

But...I have used some of the terminology in my letter that the Ombudsman has used in his report, although I have not quoted directly form the report. I would be surprised if they don't realise that I am aware of the previous rulings.

I would also be surprised if NIB are not aware of this thread on AAM (previous experience with NIB would lead me to believe that staff have read other postings here).

I wish I had a more misleading username!!!
 

Tomorrow

Registered User
Messages
187
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi guys

Just an update - financial regulator received a response from NIB. They are basically saying that they applied a 'discount' to those borrowers who had the mortgage for their PPR. As we had stated on our application that our mortgage was for an investment property, this 'discount' does not apply to us.

They are sticking to their story that it was a change of name only and not of mortgage conditions.

The regulator has asked for a response within 10 days.... but has said not to reply if I am just going to repeat any aspects of the original complaint as this may delay the process as they have to go back to NIB to give them a chance to respond.

Will let you all know when I have something further to add.
 

Butter

Registered User
Messages
602
Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

Hi guys

Just an update - financial regulator received a response from NIB. They are basically saying that they applied a 'discount' to those borrowers who had the mortgage for their PPR. As we had stated on our application that our mortgage was for an investment property, this 'discount' does not apply to us.

They are sticking to their story that it was a change of name only and not of mortgage conditions.

The regulator has asked for a response within 10 days.... but has said not to reply if I am just going to repeat any aspects of the original complaint as this may delay the process as they have to go back to NIB to give them a chance to respond.

Will let you all know when I have something further to add.

Amazing! So, NIB applied a discount to home loans but not to investment mortgages.
Ah no they didn't - they just stopped passing on rate cuts to investment mortgages but not to home mortgages. In effect - having two types of variable rate mortgages, one of which they then decided you would be put on to - regardless of everyone having the same original variable rate in their contract.

I'm slightly(!!!) annoyed by this ridiculous line of justification.

As Bronte says - I would equally love to see the minutes of this discussion in NIB.

"Ok lads - this is in front of the regulator now. Any ideas what we should say?"
"Oh I know! Let's say it was a discount given to home owners not discrimination against investment mortgage holders. Then we'll get away with it"
"Great idea Johno! Let's go with that....."
 

Bronte

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Re: NIB changed mortgage name “Variable Rate Home Loan” to “Variable Investment Mortg

"Ok lads - this is in front of the regulator now. Any ideas what we should say?"
"Oh I know! Let's say it was a discount given to home owners not discrimination against investment mortgage holders. Then we'll get away with it"
"Great idea Johno! Let's go with that....."

The thing is in the past they probably did get away with it, but thanks to the likes of AAM etc hopefully no longer.
 
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