Substantial water leak - but no "effect" YET!

J

Jazz01

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Hi,

I have a major leak in the "hot water" pipes somewhere in the house.

My attic tank that feeds the hot water cylinder is continually filling. I turn off the feeder water pipe to the hot water cylinder, and after a minute, water stops filling in the attic storage tank. I've estimated that the water would empty from the attic storage tank in under 15mins (tied up ball cock).

SO, main issue is that I can't find where the water is being lost. Obviously not upstairs, as no ill effects through ceilings. Downstairs, no pressure lost in hot water taps, except for a "slight" drop in pressure in the kitchen hot tap. I say slight as it is small and might be actually my imagination (pressure wasn't great there anyway).

I have no "damp" spots, no warping wooden floors, etc etc... no noise of leaking water etc... any recommendations? I've heard of infra red cameras / listening devices... can these be rented out? Anyone know of anyone who does this work? Going rates etc. I'm in the Cork area...

Thanks in advance...

p.s. - been like this for about 2 weeks - needless to say, no hot water in the house...
 
Check pipework such as washing machine connections, dishwasher connections, etc. They are notorious for leaking as connected to moveable items.
 
Yip, have checked them & under kitchen cabinets, nothing is damp... checked all rooms (hand & knees around each room), attic spaces, outside the house... granted, outside of house is always wet due to all the rain, but nothing "extra" so to speak...
 
concrete slab floors... various coverings, depending on the room - carpet, tile, solid wooden floor...
 
You may need to do a pressure test on the circuits. You will need to disconnect the pipework from the top of the cylinder. Isolate the vent. Isolate the upstairs circuit. Connect an air compressor to the now isolated downstairs circuit. Bring pressure to 3-4 bar and disconnect. Leave it stand for 30 minutes. If pressure drops, then you have a leak on the downstairs circuit. Check everywhere for now hissing sound from high pressure air leaking where pipe is leaking.

If this fails, you need somebody like a mate of mine who does the above but then pumps a gas into the circuit. He then walks around with a probe that smells the gas and measures the intensity to narrow down the location.

I just remembered I had a call out to similar situation and it was a combined mixer tap & shower head in the bath. The shower head had been left in the bottom of the bath and the hot left slightly open. It was not noticed as it was lying in the bottom of the bath and the water was just trickling into the outlet. Worth a check.

Another possible cause is that you have a faulty mixer tap and it could be letting hot water into the cold circuit and eventually back to the attic tank. Not common but possible. To check this, heat cylinder and check pipework from cold side of the mixer tap. If it's warm, then this is the problem.
 
Hi Shane,

Thanks for the responses on this... I was reading about the gas insertion into the system last night (as well as all the other checks that could be done :) ) ... is it possible to get your mates number so I could ring him on this?

I went through a check on the mixer tap also ... but all seems ok there...

Anyone else used listening device / infra red camera to detect a leak?
 
hi jazz01,

this happened to us in the middle of the night last summer. twas like being underwater in a submarine :D - water gurling around pipes etc. plumber came the next day. he was baffled for a while but then noticed the tinyiest little damp patch on the grout by the hall radiator. he neatly cut six tiles and there was the leak (tis a very old house). the pipe connecting to the rad had completely snapped for no apparent reason. the leaking water was running away underground - half our hallway is concrete the other half is old floorboards. It looked like there was drop under the floorboards of a couple of feet! Like I said it's a really old house! I'm not sure what we would have done if he hadn't spotted the small damp patch. Not sure if this helps but the leak has got to be on the ground floor running away somewhere like in our case. Is your house old?
Good luck with finding the source.

majee
 
Hi Majee,

Thanks for that... I had plumber & a local builder (friend) out - they couldn't find anything either... I think with the amount of water I'm losing, I'd expect to find something... My house is from the early 80s... I did have leak in heating system a year or so back, pin hole in the pipe, but I could hear that at the time... this time - nothing, so I'm thinking the same as your issue - complete breakage in a pipe so just pouring out rather than been forced out, and somewhere on the ground floor...

I found a place in Cork that does gas in the system (as per Shane suggested in one of his posts) - but doesn't come cheap... €350+vat... so I'll have to go down that road :-(
 
If it is the tank that feeds the cylinder then it will not be a leak on the heating system. It will be on the hot water pipework to hw taps. If you have an open vented system and the expansion tank is lower than the big tank and if the coil in the cylinder split, the expansion tank would then overfill, but you would notice the overflow spilling out water.

Before trying gas, I would definitely narrow down where the leak is with compressed air. You will find that 4 bar pressure will probably show you where the leak is. It will be far cheaper too. Your plumber should have a compressor (for air testing new systems).

My mate is based in Kilkenny and I would doubt he would travel to Cork. If you want to just talk to him about it, then let me know & I will give you his number. He only uses gas as a last resort. Usually the sonic listening will show it up.
 
thanks for the update on that Shane... will look into that... just finding it "fun" trying to get a plumber out for a few hours within the next week...
 
From your first post you say that you turned off the feeder pipe to the hot water cylinder. Is this in fact the feeder pipe to the attic tank? Some houses can have both. (Based on the fact that you have had a plumber out, I could be wrong - but it's worth a shot)

If this is the case, then it may not be the hot water circuit.

The tank in the attic also (in some houses) feeds the uppper floor cold water taps and cisterns. It may be that a cistern is faulty and constantly flowing down the toilet bowl. This would give the problem you descibe,and not show up as a leak anywhere.

I'd check that first.
 
If its significant enough to empty the tank in 15 minutes and has been running for 2 weeks then I would have thought it would be showing somewhere by now. Not the most scientific but if you have a dehumidifier then you could try putting that in each room for the same amount of time. If the floor is wet but not enough to be seen then there should be more water collected in that room. I had a guy with a thermal help chase a leak a few years back. Can't remember his name or how much but I'll have an email from him back along if you want me to try and find it.
 
If the leak is on the domestic hw pipe, a thermal image camera will be useless as it will not stay hot long enough to heat the surrounding area. They really only work on central heating with the heating on constant. Air pressure test first and if that fails, sonic listening, and then gas.

If pipe is buried deep, it may not show above ground.

You can hire thermal cameras, etc. for €50 per day for basic one.
 
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