As I said up in #37 I agree with you that it begins with the customer themselves (including those of us not in stupid debt) to ensure via their government these bodies are correctly regulated. This would effect all CC companies so their competitors don't have some competitive advantage.
Stupid Debt
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As I said up in #37 I agree with you that it begins with the customer themselves (including those of us not in stupid debt) to ensure via their government these bodies are correctly regulated. This would effect all CC companies so their competitors don't have some competitive advantage.
Appalling snobbery.......Generally people in 'clubs' are actually planners and savers. They save to be able to afford the nice things in life like a nice holiday and a good Christmas......I have to say that if your income is on the low side and you join a 'club' to save, that would make you one of those WITH common sense.....
Doesn't sound like you were first in the queue for common sense either!. People can end up in low income jobs for any number of reasons, lack of education, family responsibilities etc - it does not mean that they are stupid or lack common sense!
I also fail to see how going on a 'cheap' holiday to spain indicates a lack of common sense - would you feel better if they went to a 5 star resort in the South of France?
Yours is the most ridiculous and snobbish statement I have heard for a long time.
Give the chap a break - he said "could be". As a denizen of many a low paying job I can say that many (but by no means all) workers in such jobs do indeed lack common sense.
I would say that there is a much bigger story behind many debt problems than is obvious. The topic would probably be a very interesting social pyschology survey.
More and more I think that our society is about living through spending. I know this sounds superior but spending has become so emotional when it comes to stuff like designer handbags and wide screen TVs that people are really childish about it (as in being totally emotional and not rational). I think people like this have emotional issues and need to grow up. They must be a salesperson's dream. Of course I don't mean people who buy a handbag, I mean people who get into debt because of buying crap.
Of course, then there are people who are genuinely trying to cope but are struggling with the complexity of outgoings vs incomes and just how to manage it.
I think there are also people who have fallen on hard times and had bad luck or bad health and get into trouble. This could in fairness happen to any of us. However I don't think the OP was referring to these people.
More and more I think that our society is about living through spending. I know this sounds superior but spending has become so emotional when it comes to stuff like designer handbags and wide screen TVs that people are really childish about it (as in being totally emotional and not rational). I think people like this have emotional issues and need to grow up. They must be a salesperson's dream. Of course I don't mean people who buy a handbag, I mean people who get into debt because of buying crap.
Of course, then there are people who are genuinely trying to cope but are struggling with the complexity of outgoings vs incomes and just how to manage it.
I think there are also people who have fallen on hard times and had bad luck or bad health and get into trouble. This could in fairness happen to any of us. However I don't think the OP was referring to these people.
MissRibena
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I totally agree with annR.
I really think that there is way more going on sub-consciously when people end up in the kind of 'stupid debt' the thread is about. I think advertisers know exactly what buttons to push and some people are lucky (or a bit older/wiser) enough to see through it and others don't see it until it is too late, if at all. I think that to credit card/financial institutions almost wait in the wings for the taste to kick in and get in on the act themselves at times (like the PTSB car magazine I mentioned earlier). I think a lot of the "ads" use techniques that are very subtle and difficult to regulate. Some programs are basically just infomercials but are still scheduled like a regular program and it's easy to see how after a hard day some of the stuff would seep into your head as fact rather than a sales pitch.
I look at shows like Expose (not often!) on TV3 and half the time it's actually an ad for luxury goods from BTs or wherever and it comes across that a) every "girl" obviously wants it (so is there something wrong with you if you're not bothered?) and b) every "girl" is worth it no matter how expensive it is. Often it's a profile of just a single product, not even an attempt at comparing a cross-section of what's available. And the show is mixed in with celebrity stuff that society seems to be obsessed with as if you can somehow buy your way into the glamour too. I know it's just a TV version of magazines like "Now" but I think a lot of the show's content should be clearly labelled as an ad to remind people.
I also think the Overseas Property Show (I think that's the name of it) again on TV3 should have a similar warning because I can't see how it is any different to an ad because it's just a showcase for developments rather than the more usual format of following someone on a househunt.
I think the whole 'because I'm worth it' thing has a lot ot answer for. How can any of us not be worth it. It's a pity they don't make it clear what the 'it' is though.
I really think that there is way more going on sub-consciously when people end up in the kind of 'stupid debt' the thread is about. I think advertisers know exactly what buttons to push and some people are lucky (or a bit older/wiser) enough to see through it and others don't see it until it is too late, if at all. I think that to credit card/financial institutions almost wait in the wings for the taste to kick in and get in on the act themselves at times (like the PTSB car magazine I mentioned earlier). I think a lot of the "ads" use techniques that are very subtle and difficult to regulate. Some programs are basically just infomercials but are still scheduled like a regular program and it's easy to see how after a hard day some of the stuff would seep into your head as fact rather than a sales pitch.
I look at shows like Expose (not often!) on TV3 and half the time it's actually an ad for luxury goods from BTs or wherever and it comes across that a) every "girl" obviously wants it (so is there something wrong with you if you're not bothered?) and b) every "girl" is worth it no matter how expensive it is. Often it's a profile of just a single product, not even an attempt at comparing a cross-section of what's available. And the show is mixed in with celebrity stuff that society seems to be obsessed with as if you can somehow buy your way into the glamour too. I know it's just a TV version of magazines like "Now" but I think a lot of the show's content should be clearly labelled as an ad to remind people.
I also think the Overseas Property Show (I think that's the name of it) again on TV3 should have a similar warning because I can't see how it is any different to an ad because it's just a showcase for developments rather than the more usual format of following someone on a househunt.
I think the whole 'because I'm worth it' thing has a lot ot answer for. How can any of us not be worth it. It's a pity they don't make it clear what the 'it' is though.
Having previously worked in a financial institution that decided to launch a credit card I noticed that the credit assessment of an individual was left to a junior staff member with little or no banking experience. I was concerned about one of my customers who on a monthly basis was forcing debt on their credit card. She would simply ring our head office and ask for a further increase that was immediately granted. It had got to the stage where her monthly spending on her credit card was more than her monthly income. I was able to check her statement where over 90% of her spend was in Brown Thomas cosmetic department or Boots chemists. Despite my years experience in banking my recommendations to my head office fell on deaf ears. I insisted that my concerns be noted on her account but to no avail. I later moved on to another branch so this customer was no longer linked to me.
I don't know whatever happened to this account or this customer but I say that the actions of my head office was almost "criminal" in their total irresponsibility.
I don't know whatever happened to this account or this customer but I say that the actions of my head office was almost "criminal" in their total irresponsibility.
Banks should reward good payers with a decent limit and set a lower limit for those who don't have the means. When I was a student I had a student creditcard with e2100 as the limit. The limit on a student credit card is e600 
Reward good payers, punish poor payers.
Reward good payers, punish poor payers.DrMoriarty
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Banks/CC companies hate "good payers" who clear their balance every month.
The more their customers rack up debt, the more profit they make. At rates of up to 18%/20%, in many cases compounding very nicely indeed, thank you.
My wife used to work for a large Irish bank and frequently came across exactly the phenomenon that BOXtheFOX describes.
Which is not to say "evil banks", but rather ...easy money?
The more their customers rack up debt, the more profit they make. At rates of up to 18%/20%, in many cases compounding very nicely indeed, thank you.
My wife used to work for a large Irish bank and frequently came across exactly the phenomenon that BOXtheFOX describes.
Which is not to say "evil banks", but rather ...easy money?
"Banks/CC companies hate "good payers" who clear their balance every month."
Is that really true? I thought that banks get about a 1% fee for all cc transactions. While the best customers are those that carry a balance, banks still do well from those that pay off each month.
In a broader sense I see the rise in debt and the fall in savings as a reflection of changing nature of money. It just ain't what it used to be!
Negative real interest rates and the sense that somebody ( central bankers, governments) will bail us out in a crisis certainly discourages saving and promotes excessive borrowing.
Is that really true? I thought that banks get about a 1% fee for all cc transactions. While the best customers are those that carry a balance, banks still do well from those that pay off each month.
In a broader sense I see the rise in debt and the fall in savings as a reflection of changing nature of money. It just ain't what it used to be!
Negative real interest rates and the sense that somebody ( central bankers, governments) will bail us out in a crisis certainly discourages saving and promotes excessive borrowing.
How does that phrase go? "a fool and their money ..."
I've been out of Ireland for quite a few years and here's what I've noticed. One of the biggest changes was all these teenagers driving brand new shiny cars. New houses with top of the range kitchens and furniture and white goods as a right not a thing to earn or save for. I had been wondering how everybody was able to afford it until I joined AAM and discovered everyone (lot of people) is buying everything on credit. Last xmas I went into a furniture shop by accident and what was advertised was not the couches but the buy now pay later finance. Truly shocked at this and I've concluded the Ireland is coping America and it's cut across all social classes. People seem to be rolling over the debt again and again (consolidating) but an end will come. One day there will be no equity left. I also agree in relation to banks and credit cards. The banks best customers are those who are constantly in debt and pay back something but not all every month. They actually don't want people like me who pay on time and topload the credit card before I go on holiday.
While I do agree people in Ireland are way too fond of credit the Irish economy is in a pretty strong position, our gpd growth has been phenomenal and the job market is still pretty strong.
This is a very interesting debate; gullible credit card holders with "little common sense" or "greedy" banks, who's to blame? Surely at the heart of the matter is personal responsibility, we are each personally responsible for our actions and inactions- be that running up a huge CC debt or failing to succumb to a salesman's pitch. I suppose a good starting point for each of us as consumers would be to ask ourselves: "do I want this or do I actually need this?".
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I'm not sure that its all on credit. Ireland has a lower unemployment rate and higher average wages than most of the world. Unlike other EU countries, including UK, relatively young people in Ireland can earn a decent wage fairly quickly. I'm not saying that there hasnt been an increase in debt, but the increase in the % of people working and the wages they earn is probably the biggest factor.
This is a gross and inaccurate generalisation.
As an slight antidote to this diatribe:
Indo: "One-third of householders enjoy a mortgage-free life"
Clubman there are an awful lot of people here on AAM who are rolling over their debt, I've personally know of plenty of people. Remortgaging to fund lifestyle. I take your point that there are many (generally older people who have no debt/mortgage or otherwise who own their own homes. But this one third isn't going to help the rest are they?
Welfarite I'm not saying there is anything wrong with debt. But I also believe that one shouldn't purchase what one cannot afford.
Re the furniture shop....... it's a long story and ye wouldn't believe me but it's linked to the new 'Americanised' Ireland.
Welfarite I'm not saying there is anything wrong with debt. But I also believe that one shouldn't purchase what one cannot afford.
Re the furniture shop....... it's a long story and ye wouldn't believe me but it's linked to the new 'Americanised' Ireland.