Still unable to sell house - should I take it off the market for another year

Status
Not open for further replies.
demoivre said:
This is wrong in this case as there is no financial cost of funds as I have already pointed out. You have failed repeatedly to back up your claim that the op is losing €1000 per week by having this property.
Click to expand...

demoivre, I'm a little lost. Why do you say the OP is not losing 1000 per week? If they sold the house and put it in the bank @ 5% they'd be making say 1000 per week. Letting it sit they earn nothing. Opportunity cost. Am I missing something?

It's just academic to say they are not 'actually' losing 1000 per week.
 
Camry said:
demoivre. This is beginning to clog the OPs thread. But indeed, a
property asset with 100% void costs money (the carry) and a bad investment. It is "dead" as in non-performing and (to quote me accurately) sovereign bonds offer a risk free (nominal) interest rate.
Click to expand...

The op states
Period property 3/4 bed, Donnybrook area. Excellent condition. Currently rented out. No mortgage.
Click to expand...

Once again you have described an asset with a rental income as "dead as in non-performing" which is so clearly not the case nor is there a void cost at present, seeing as the property is currently rented out, so I have no idea where you are coming from.
 
camel said:
demoivre, I'm a little lost. Why do you say the OP is not losing 1000 per week? If they sold the house and put it in the bank @ 5% they'd be making say 1000 per week. Letting it sit they earn nothing. Opportunity cost. Am I missing something?

It's just academic to say they are not 'actually' losing 1000 per week.
Click to expand...

The point you are missing is that the property is not sitting there it is rented out if you go back and read the op so it is an earning asset and there is the potential for capital appreciation in the future. Opportunity cost is the cost foregone by not using a factor of production in it's best alternative capacity. The opportunity cost in this instance would be the difference between the rental stream and eg the deposit interest the op would get if she sold the property and lodged the proceeds in a deposit account. Working out the opportunity cost in this instance is not easy because we don't know what the property will sell for, and thus we don't know what sale proceeds can be placed in an "alternative capacity" such as a deposit account earning interest.
 
If you look at a bond there is no decrease in its nominal value but it does return interest. The house is making a return in rent but it is (probably) losing its value in a falling market.

If you had 1000 in a bond the asset is still worth 1000 nominal in a year. 1000 in a house is more likely to be worth aroun 900 in a year. The total cost of ownership is higher for a house.
 
arry said:
If you look at a bond there is no decrease in its nominal value but it does return interest. The house is making a return in rent but it is (probably) losing its value in a falling market.

If you had 1000 in a bond the asset is still worth 1000 nominal in a year. 1000 in a house is more likely to be worth aroun 900 in a year. The total cost of ownership is higher for a house.
Click to expand...

And if your time frame for property investment is one year don't expect to make any money out of it !
 
arry and demoivre, thanks for clearing that up.
demoivre, I was under the impression the OP simply didn't want to be a landlord. I stand corrected.
 
I understand what camry is saying in that the sale price put into the bank will earn a high rate of interest etc etc. Problem being is that if you take into account the other advice offered such as reducing asking price drastically to sell you would be dropping from €1.7m to c. €1m+ just to off load it quickly, further deduct your 20% capital gains and you are substantially down in your investment, it would prob take quite a while to gain enough interest to just bring you back up to the original valuation of the property. It is for this reason that I think it is worth sitting it out and see how the market goes, if the worst case scenario happens and it takes a dive then you can sell at the figures people are saying you should drop it to now. Thhe OP does not want the hassle of being a landlord, can the OP declare whether she would have any interest in letting a managing agent take over for her, if not then it does cut her options down dramatically.
It would be interesting to see what the OP thinks of the suggestions to date.
 
In fairness, the idea of cutting the price each month was in response to the OP looking for advice on how to make a sale. I think we can all agree that this is the best way to sell the house: keep dropping the price in increments until it is worth what a buyer is prepared to pay. Sure, you could hold out for more, but is the extra cash worth the extra hassle? (for a lot of people it's not).

The OP also stated that there are maintenance problems with the house that they can't afford to fix - so it's not simply a case of saying "rent it out until the market improves". If it's a case that the house has to stay empty while the repairs are being made, maybe that's where being a landlord is an unwanted worry.

OP - ask yourself which is more important: additional money or reduced stress? The answer is different for everyone.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fairness, the idea of cutting the price each month was in response to the OP looking for advice on how to make a sale. I think we can all agree that this is the best way to sell the house
Click to expand...

Safer to say the easiest way rather than the best way, and the easy way out doesn't tend to look after everyones interest mainly just the buyer.

The OP also stated that there are maintenance problems with the house that they can't afford to fix - so it's not simply a case of saying "rent it out until the market improves
Click to expand...

As has been pointed out to me in this thread there are other properties that the OP owns which she could sell instead such as the one in waterford. I just feel that the period property has a better chance of recovering its price than the standard home located away from the D4 district. There is no mortgage on the property, she inherited the properties which would suggest that she may be a relative novice in making her money work for her. A good managing agent would take a fee and also alleviate stress, she surely would be up every month with no other outgoings except maintenance on the property. She also has the tax side of her rental income covered through the purchase of a section 23 property, so I don't think its in her best interests to try and off load her best property now.
 
outspann said:
I think we can all agree that this is the best way to sell the house: keep dropping the price in increments until it is worth what a buyer is prepared to pay.
Click to expand...

That is woeful advice. Nothing smacks of desperation more than a series of incremental price cuts.

If the seller wants to shift the property she needs to take decisive action and make one meaningful reduction that will attract buyer's interest. Find out what similar properties are selling for and undercut that price by 10%.
Also, the listing is stale because it has been on the market for so long. Relist it with a new EA and with a substantial price reduction and you'll have a "fresh" property that is priced below the competition. Much better chance of attracting interest.

Making incremental reductions is death by a thousand cuts. It will take buyers all of two seconds to figure out what is going on and they will be quite happy to bide their time and wait for the next cut.
 
You are looking at the market in the way that many seem to approach it. Items such as the census numbers for empty homes are looked upon as supply exceeding demand, but the way i see it is that to look at the market as a whole is the first mistake. Every county in Ireland is different and within each county there will again be subsections. You need only examine the market that effects you locally. For instance apart from the obvious anomolies with the census report, how many empty properties were period properties, how many were located in D4. To find the price by dropping continually is not in your best interests as anyone looking for this type of property will generally be experienced and therefore will read the signs a mile away that not only will it drop more in time, but also they will offer far below asking as it would stink of a seller in trouble.
 
Lads why are some of ye making this all so hard?

OP is trying to sell something for TWO YEARS and hasn't sold it. The overall market has gone backwards (significantly) in that time.

And you have people here still advising her *not* to reduce her price if she wants to sell.

What planet are ye living on? How many more years should she wait, and how far should the market fall before she should consider reducing the price?

It's incredible that a question where the answer is so glaringly obvious can even be debated.
 
It's incredible that a question where the answer is so glaringly obvious can even be debated.
Click to expand...

Provide the answer then. The debate has been about how its dropped and to what extent, sure they could just shave 50% off the price and i'm sure it would move pretty quick, but some degree of sense has to prevail.
 
MrMan said:
You need only examine the market that effects you locally. For instance apart from the obvious anomolies with the census report, how many empty properties were period properties, how many were located in D4.
Click to expand...
I doubt these property markets are entirely independent of each other. The same investors own properties around the country and these investments are funded by the same lenders using common credit criteria and the same interest rate. Investor sentiment is affected by national media. Many international markets seem to be moving in tandem nowadays.

xman said:
What planet are ye living on? How many more years should she wait, and how far should the market fall before she should consider reducing the price?
Click to expand...
Nobody knows where property prices will be next year. No more than any share or commodity price next year.

If the OP really wants to sell maybe she could hold a Dutch Auction. I imagine she would get a lot of attention in the press and thus exposure to many buyers.
 
Carolina said:
I doubt these property markets are entirely independent of each other. The same investors own properties around the country and these investments are funded by the same lenders using common credit criteria and the same interest rate. Investor sentiment is affected by national media. Many international markets seem to be moving in tandem nowadays....
Click to expand...

Location, location, location....;)
 
Carolina said:
I doubt these property markets are entirely independent of each other. The same investors own properties around the country and these investments are funded by the same lenders using common credit criteria and the same interest rate. Investor sentiment is affected by national media. Many international markets seem to be moving in tandem nowadays.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me but I certainly wouldn't take the same investment view of a two bedroomed apartment in Leitrim as I would of a period home in D4 as I would of office space in Barcelona ...but there you go !
 
I doubt these property markets are entirely independent of each other. The same investors own properties around the country and these investments are funded by the same lenders using common credit criteria and the same interest rate. Investor sentiment is affected by national media. Many international markets seem to be moving in tandem nowadays.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't think that investors are the target market in this case.
 
demoivre said:
Maybe it's just me but I certainly wouldn't take the same investment view of a two bedroomed apartment in Leitrim as I would of a period home in D4 as I would of office space in Barcelona ...but there you go !
Click to expand...
Do you agree that common factors influence these markets? Do you think that buying into several Irish property markets or even European property markets represents diversification?

MrMan said:
I wouldn't think that investors are the target market in this case.
Click to expand...
Investor sentiment affects the whole property market. Dublin 4 residential property is hardly an investor-free sector. Even the OP is a property investor.
 
No offense Carolina but I haven't a clue what point you are trying to make or advice you are trying to give here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top