Stephen Hawking (RIP)

elacsaplau

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I always admired Stephen Hawking and I respect the old dictum de mortuis nihil nisi bonum

I've been wondering about his funeral. My question is whether a leading Christian figure - say a Catholic bishop would opt for a humanist funeral and so by extension why would a famous thought leader and atheist go for a funeral in a church with all that symbolises?
 
maybe its humility on death, you may come up with great theories to describe nature today, but you still only getting a small glimpse into the mysteries of nature and existence. Einstein had a similar philosophy he did not believe in the literal events of the bible but he believed in a greater intelligence that was responsible for everything to which great minds like his occasionally got a glimpse. Einstein was not a practising jew but at the same time he did not reject judaism ,he remained a jew. Maybe this was more to do with solidarity with his fellow jews who suffered so much during the holocaust. Its also the case that great minds can be wrong and their theories disproved by later discoveries. For example Einstein was not a believer in quantum mechanics, he famously said "God does not play dice", but quantum mechanics is the foundation of modern physics. Who is to say that Stephen Hawkins theories may also come to be disproved or encapsulated in a much greater future theory.
 
Hawking was famously an atheist but his children Lucy, Robert and Tim chose the church of St Mary the Great to say their farewell."

And their mother was a strong believer too, according to the movie depiction anyway.
Interestingly, during the movie, Hawking makes reference to God at some point, as gesture of conciliation to his wife, but also perhaps as a gesture to recognise that he may be wrong.
 

I wouldnt dispute that. But as all of this is theoretical, then I think he would acknowledge the possibility that he could be wrong, as distinct from believing that he was wrong.
Im atheist. I dont believe in after-life, the resurrection or any of the magic tricks of the bible. That said, I place great value in the words and teachings of This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Christ with regard to forgiveness, tolerance etc. I simply dont buy into the after-life.

I am open to the possibilty that I could be wrong. Im minded to think of Stephen Frys response to Gay Byrne when asked if it transpired that his aetheism turned out to be wrong, what would he say to God? Fry responded with an accusatory retort directed at God with regard to all the cruelty in the world. I couldnt help think, that that would be so much the wrong approach to take.

If there is a God, and an after-life, the first thing I would to say to God is "Oooops!...got that bit wrong."
I would be trying to plug into his all-forgiving channels, rather than trying to take him on in a moral debate about the injustices of life on earth.
I suspect Hawking would, if faced with God, be prepared to accept he was wrong also - although I doubt he was/is.
 
Hi TheBigShort,

I suppose the only point I was trying to make is that if we take your example of Stíofán eile (Fry not Hawking) then I'd be also surprised, when his time comes, if he had a church funeral. Similarly, with say, Richard Dawkins.
 
If Hawking had been around at the same time as Newton, whose Lucasian chair he occupied at Cambridge, he would have been a priest! Taking Holy Orders was mandatory for Cambridge graduates at the time, though Newton managed to wangle his way out of it. As for the religious funeral, it seems to have been Hawking's children who decided: "Our father’s life and work meant many things to many people, both religious and non-religious; so the service will be both inclusive and traditional, reflecting the breadth and diversity of his life."

What I find more intriguing is why people care about the views of someone like Hawking on religion. I suppose it's because 1) he's famous, and 2) he made a few remarks about god in order to sell books. I wouldn't consider that Hawking is more qualified than the next man to talk about ultimate origins. In fact, he seems to have made some rather elementary philosophical mistakes. In A Brief History of Time, he wrote:

“Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?”

What he is talking about here is the philosophical problem whereby science can never -- even in principal -- explain why the universe operates according to any rules at all, let alone particular ones. No matter how many layers of the onion you peel back there will always be more. Even speculative multiverse theories which allow for different laws in different universes must encode additional rules according to which the particular physical constants evolve.

But then twelve years later in The Grand Design, he writes:

Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

In the interim he seems to have forgotten his own point, that this singularly fails to explain why or how "there is a law such as gravity". In fact, it makes things worse, because it seems to suggest that the laws exist independently of the things they govern. We have the prospect of some sort of Platonic world of ideal forms (the laws), with the physical world as an afterthought or at best a kind of hylomorphic unity.

In the preface to A Brief History Hawking says his publisher told him that every equation he included would reduce book sales. That's probably what made it a disappointing book, as it seemed (to me anyway) very lightweight for such an accomplished scientist. But then Hawking must have intuited that mentions of god would boost sales, as he is so often quoted on them.

Two hundred and forty years ago, another funeral fired the public imagination. Speculation was rife about whether the philosopher David Hume might have renounced his atheism on his deathbed. (In fact Hume never claimed to be an outright atheist, and showed deist leanings). His musings on the relationship of science and philosophy are arguably far more insightful than anything Hawking came up with. One facet of his epistemological framework is about the problem of induction. By this he challenged the validity of any scientific argument from the particular to the more general.

Hume's problem of induction is similar in a way to Hawking's question about "what breathes fire into the equations". Why should there be any laws at all? The assumption that there are is what drives science, indeed what makes it possible in the first place. But science cannot give us any idea why this should be so. A famous Einstein quote mirrors this conundrum of Hume and Hawking:

The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible
 
I've been wondering about his funeral. My question is whether a leading Christian figure - say a Catholic bishop would opt for a humanist funeral and so by extension why would a famous thought leader and atheist go for a funeral in a church with all that symbolises?

some very good responses to this topic. In the overall scheme of things it probably did not bother him how his funeral was. Afterall he was a philosopher (natural philosophy). Maybe if he went for a humanist funeral, there would be too much made of it, people would read too much into it as if Hawking was trying to make a political point from beyond the grave. It would just have been a big distraction from his lifes work. By going for a traditional christian funeral it was generally ignored .
 
Hi TheBigShort,

I suppose the only point I was trying to make is that if we take your example of Stíofán eile (Fry not Hawking) then I'd be also surprised, when his time comes, if he had a church funeral. Similarly, with say, Richard Dawkins.
U
Hi elacsaplau

I would make some subtle distinction between Hawking and Fry, Frys atheism seems to stem from the fact that there is so much injustice in the world that therefore God does not exist, and if he did, Fry would hold nothing but contempt for God.
Hawking on the otherhand, to best of my knowledge, carried no such resentment to God. He simply didnt believe in God, in a universe determined by physics.
 
If Hawking had been around at the same time as Newton, whose Lucasian chair he occupied at Cambridge, he would have been a priest! Taking Holy Orders was mandatory for Cambridge graduates at the time, though Newton managed to wangle his way out of it. As for the religious funeral, it seems to have been Hawking's children who decided: "Our father’s life and work meant many things to many people, both religious and non-religious; so the service will be both inclusive and traditional, reflecting the breadth and diversity of his life."

What I find more intriguing is why people care about the views of someone like Hawking on religion. I suppose it's because 1) he's famous, and 2) he made a few remarks about god in order to sell books. I wouldn't consider that Hawking is more qualified than the next man to talk about ultimate origins. In fact, he seems to have made some rather elementary philosophical mistakes. In A Brief History of Time, he wrote:

“Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?”

What he is talking about here is the philosophical problem whereby science can never -- even in principal -- explain why the universe operates according to any rules at all, let alone particular ones. No matter how many layers of the onion you peel back there will always be more. Even speculative multiverse theories which allow for different laws in different universes must encode additional rules according to which the particular physical constants evolve.

But then twelve years later in The Grand Design, he writes:

Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

In the interim he seems to have forgotten his own point, that this singularly fails to explain why or how "there is a law such as gravity". In fact, it makes things worse, because it seems to suggest that the laws exist independently of the things they govern. We have the prospect of some sort of Platonic world of ideal forms (the laws), with the physical world as an afterthought or at best a kind of hylomorphic unity.

In the preface to A Brief History Hawking says his publisher told him that every equation he included would reduce book sales. That's probably what made it a disappointing book, as it seemed (to me anyway) very lightweight for such an accomplished scientist. But then Hawking must have intuited that mentions of god would boost sales, as he is so often quoted on them.

Two hundred and forty years ago, another funeral fired the public imagination. Speculation was rife about whether the philosopher David Hume might have renounced his atheism on his deathbed. (In fact Hume never claimed to be an outright atheist, and showed deist leanings). His musings on the relationship of science and philosophy are arguably far more insightful than anything Hawking came up with. One facet of his epistemological framework is about the problem of induction. By this he challenged the validity of any scientific argument from the particular to the more general.

Hume's problem of induction is similar in a way to Hawking's question about "what breathes fire into the equations". Why should there be any laws at all? The assumption that there are is what drives science, indeed what makes it possible in the first place. But science cannot give us any idea why this should be so. A famous Einstein quote mirrors this conundrum of Hume and Hawking:

The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible
Newton, Hume and Einstein and even a nod to Aristotle with the mention of hylomorphism.

Personally I'm a atheist because there is no logical basis to support the existence of god or gods so I choose the light of science and reason over the darkness of religion.
 
That said, I place great value in the words and teachings of This post will be deleted if not edited immediately Christ with regard to forgiveness, tolerance etc. I simply dont buy into the after-life.
Those teachings existed long before This post will be deleted if not edited immediately. "Christian Values" were values long before there were Christians.
 
Newton, Hume and Einstein and even a nod to Aristotle with the mention of hylomorphism.

Personally I'm a atheist because there is no logical basis to support the existence of god or gods so I choose the light of science and reason over the darkness of religion.

I don't see science as an alternative to religion, or even see them as being in competition. I definitely don't see them as light versus dark. I'm passionate about science and am fine with methodological naturalism as the only sensible approach to doing it. I just think it's a mistake to turn that around and say that science proves that naturalism is true. It not only doesn't but it can't, even in principle. Most of the things that are important to us concerning ethics and values simply aren't the domain of science. That doesn't mean that they require a supernatural explanation, of course. It just means science can't and won't ever explain them. It also doesn't mean that they can't be considered logically. It is a mistake to conflate science with logic. It is one of the great conundrums that science depends on logic for which there is no scientific justification. Conversely, arguments for supernatural causes can be entirely logical without being scientific.
 
Yea, but they can't be explained my observable fact or logic.

Of course they can. There is nothing illogical about arguments for the supernatural. The observables are experiential. What you mean is that there are not reproducible phenomena as would be required for a scientific treatment. But we already agree on that.
 
Of course they can. There is nothing illogical about arguments for the supernatural. The observables are experiential. What you mean is that there are not reproducible phenomena as would be required for a scientific treatment. But we already agree on that.
No , I mean that they can't be explained my observable fact or logic.
 
Well then I'm afraid you're just mistaken. Let's forget the experiential side for a moment. What's not observable or logical about the Cosmological argument?
 
What's not observable or logical about the Cosmological argument?
It explains the unexplained with the unexplainable. It is no more observable or logical than the celestial teapot.
What is observable or logical about the Cosmological argument?
 
It explains the unexplained with the unexplainable. It is no more observable or logical than the celestial teapot.
What is observable or logical about the Cosmological argument?

You've lost me there. Then again, I was never great on the Star Signs :p
 
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