State Pension (Contributory) - Not enough years for Total Contributions Approach

R

RugbyBoy

Registered User
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146
Hi All,

I moved abroad shortly after graduating I returned 15 years ago and have worked and paid PRSI since I returned.
I have 10 years to retirement so at retirement I should have 25 years prsi contributions.

So based on what I read about TCA , I should get roughly 140 euros per week i.e 233 / 40 * 25
So I have no way of getting the max pension?

I know I can be assessed under the average rule but I worked summers during college and paid prsi so I suspect I would not do well under this

Appreciate any advice

RB
 
It might be possible to add any overseas National Insurance contributions to your Irish record. Ireland has a number of bi-lateral social security agreements with a range of other countries (eg EU, OECD etc). Where did you work overseas?
 
Also, have a look here :

State Pension (Contributory)

The State Pension (Contributory), previously called the Old Age (Contributory) Pension, is payable to people aged 66 and over who have worked and paid enough social insurance contributions.
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie
and you may do better under the "bands" rates for yearly averages. Like you, I reduced my yearly average by working during college Summer holidays.
You can also contact the Citizens Information people, and they will do a calculation of what you should expect to get.
 
Conan said:
It might be possible to add any overseas National Insurance contributions to your Irish record. Ireland has a number of bi-lateral social security agreements with a range of other countries (eg EU, OECD etc). Where did you work overseas?
Click to expand...
Thanks Conan I did and will get a partial UK pension
 
Worth telling us what you did, where you did it and what social security you paid in the 15 years abroad.

If it was UK which you imply above then you should investigate the options you have to pay additional UK national insurance contributions - it can make a huge difference and is incredibly cheap. You can pay class 2 National insurance contributions from abroad which is a couple of hundred pounds a year and potentially get your UK pension to a full UK pension (you can usually only go back 6 years but there's an exception on the time limit until 2023 for some years so likely you could pay last 12 years and then keep paying). It is possibly the single best investment you could ever make.

You can get some info if you google "paying UK NI contributions from abroad" (won't let me link) but when you apply for you NI history it will tell you which years you can make up if you choose. They are helpful on the phone too when you eventually get through.

Really you have to do the maths on what's best:
  • Partial pension from each that just happens from what you are working and paying now
  • Full irish pension (by using your UK NI contributions towards your irish pension)
  • Pay additional UK contributions and take partial irish pension plus greater (possibly full) UK pension
If you are eligible, option 3 is usually always the best (and not a large gamble now as you are only investing £200 a year and as long as you live to 69 it will be the best investment you can make) but do the maths and check out all the facts first. I also like this because it hedges your bets against rules changes in the future, means testing in either UK or Ireland or both, currency changes etc. This is important to note - pensions have changed a lot in last 20 years and will have to change considerably more in the next 20 years - all you can do really is keep your options maximised. This is my personal take from when I investigated for my wife who was in similar circumstances (and regretted that summer job at school that wrecked her average method!!!!) - do not take it as financial advice - just advice on where to investigate what's possible.
 
Farma1 said:
Worth telling us what you did, where you did it and what social security you paid in the 15 years abroad.

If it was UK which you imply above then you should investigate the options you have to pay additional UK national insurance contributions - it can make a huge difference and is incredibly cheap. You can pay class 2 National insurance contributions from abroad which is a couple of hundred pounds a year and potentially get your UK pension to a full UK pension (you can usually only go back 6 years but there's an exception on the time limit until 2023 for some years so likely you could pay last 12 years and then keep paying). It is possibly the single best investment you could ever make.

You can get some info if you google "paying UK NI contributions from abroad" (won't let me link) but when you apply for you NI history it will tell you which years you can make up if you choose. They are helpful on the phone too when you eventually get through.

Really you have to do the maths on what's best:
  • Partial pension from each that just happens from what you are working and paying now
  • Full irish pension (by using your UK NI contributions towards your irish pension)
  • Pay additional UK contributions and take partial irish pension plus greater (possibly full) UK pension
If you are eligible, option 3 is usually always the best (and not a large gamble now as you are only investing £200 a year and as long as you live to 69 it will be the best investment you can make) but do the maths and check out all the facts first. I also like this because it hedges your bets against rules changes in the future, means testing in either UK or Ireland or both, currency changes etc. This is important to note - pensions have changed a lot in last 20 years and will have to change considerably more in the next 20 years - all you can do really is keep your options maximised. This is my personal take from when I investigated for my wife who was in similar circumstances (and regretted that summer job at school that wrecked her average method!!!!) - do not take it as financial advice - just advice on where to investigate what's possible.
Click to expand...
Hi Farma,

Thanks for all the info. I thinking on the same lines as you. I would prefer to have two partial pensions rather than one. So I won't transfer my UK contributions to Ireland . I am going to make UK voluntary contributions to top that up.

I think there a lot my generation i.e who lived overseas for a significant time in for a shock when they get close to retirement age. They all assume they will get a full pension

RB
 
But worth remembering that the basic UK State Pension is less than the full rate Irish Pension.
 
Farma1 said:
Really you have to do the maths on what's best:
  • Partial pension from each that just happens from what you are working and paying now
  • Full irish pension (by using your UK NI contributions towards your irish pension)
  • Pay additional UK contributions and take partial irish pension plus greater (possibly full) UK pension
Click to expand...
In the OP's circumstances I can't see him doing better than the third option. Even though Irish pension is higher than UK one it's unlikely that adding UK paid contributions to Irish ones to get the full Irish pension will be better than 5/8 of an Irish pension plus a full UK one after voluntary contributions.

Class 2 voluntary NI contributions are only £3 a week which is affordable to basically anyone, particularly the payoff at the end of a full UK state pension after 35 years of contributions.
 
completely agree. And Ireland could end up means testing and UK not or vice versa, or the pound/euro could de-value a lot - so best to pay the £3 a week and keep all future options maximised!
 
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Farma1 said:
And Ireland could end up means testing and UK not or vice versa
Click to expand...
I'd be highly surprised if contributory state pensions are ever means tested in Ireland or UK.

They could change number of contributions needed, or let the rate fall in real terms, or increase eligibility age, of course.

But at £3 a week as you say you are not taking much risk.
 
RugbyBoy said:
Hi Farma,

Thanks for all the info. I thinking on the same lines as you. I would prefer to have two partial pensions rather than one. So I won't transfer my UK contributions to Ireland . I am going to make UK voluntary contributions to top that up.

I think there a lot my generation i.e who lived overseas for a significant time in for a shock when they get close to retirement age. They all assume they will get a full pension

RB
Click to expand...
Agree with the bottom sentence but most will get the equivalent of a full pension - ie two partials or one full using the contributions. Its all the people who don't realise that for £3 a week they could have two full pensions in the way its currently done. ie If you start work in UK and then move here mid working life then if you keep paying your £3 per week then you could have had full Irish and full UK pensions. How long they leave it like this is anyones guess but I'd say more people in this scenario don't realise it (and hence haven't paid their £3 per week) than do realise it.
 
Farma1 said:
How long they leave it like this is anyones guess but I'd say more people in this scenario don't realise it (and hence haven't paid their £3 per week) than do realise it.
Click to expand...
I found out by accident that I could contribute and my eyes nearly popped out when I realised how cheap it was.
 
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