State contributory pension query - gaps in PRSI contribution record

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galgal5003

Registered User
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Hi all,

I am almost 36 and decided to recently enquire about my social insurance record in Ireland (see attached)

Below is a breakdown of my history for the reckonsble period:
2003 - 2008: Part-time/summer jobs
Oct 2004 - June 2008: University degree
Oct 2008 - June 2012: PhD (funded by scholarship)
June 2012 - March 2016: Worked in UK
March 2016 to date: Worked in Ireland (and continue to do so)

Questions:
1. Is there any way to bridge in the gaps from 2003 - 2008? My entry age for the normal average rule is working against me in this instance.
2. I have no contributions from when I was a full-time PhD student (fully funded by scholarship 2008-2012) - can I buy back these years or be credited?
3. I worked in the UK from June 2012 to March 2016 - is it worth my while buying the 6.5 years worth of contributions to make up the 10 years to qualify for the UK state pension or should/can I buy back these years for my Irish state pension?

Apologies for the long post - would appreciate any advice or feedback on this.
 

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Based on a current retirement age of 66 you will have c37 years Irish contributions (presumably A Class?) by age 66 (plus maybe some additional for summer jobs). The "Average " method will be abolished by then, replaced by the Total Contribution Approach- 1/40th for each year of Contribution. So you should be very close to a full pension (under current rules). You can also add in your UK history to bring you up to 40/40ths.
So based on current rules (you are among way off reaching State Pension Age) I think you would get a full State Pension, assuming you continue as an A Class.
 
I was typing a response similar to Conan's above but he got there first!

I would add that there are also a number of ways in which you could stop working and accumulate PRSI credits which are reckonable towards the pension. [see here for more details] probably the most obvious one relates to the credits available for giving up work to raise a child or care for someone.
It's also possible to purchase PRSI credits, although I'm afraid that you have left it too late in respect of the gap in your current record - but you could look into that when you are in your 50's - especially if you want to stop working before retirement age.
 
galgal5003 said:
3. I worked in the UK from June 2012 to March 2016 - is it worth my while buying the 6.5 years worth of contributions to make up the 10 years to qualify for the UK state pension or should/can I buy back these years for my Irish state pension?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Apply by April 2023 at all costs to buy back years and continue to make them until you have the 35 years for a full UK state pension.

Class 2 voluntary NICs are £3 a week and the best investment return I know of.


Conan said:
You can also add in your UK history to bring you up to 40/40ths
Click to expand...
I diaagree. As advised above, better to make voluntary contributions in the UK and not use UK contribution history to get to 40/40 in Ireland. 37/40 of an Irish state pension and a full UK one is much better.


Groucho said:
It's also possible to purchase PRSI credits, although I'm afraid that you have left it too late in respect of the gap in your current record -
Click to expand...
I don't think so. You need 520 paid contributions to make voluntary PRSI contributions and OP didn't have that before the gap occured.
 
You will have some pre entry credits for your first year of employment (2003)
These are paid back to the start of 2003. If you started working roughly half way through the year you could have maybe about 26 credits. These pre entry credits do not show on your Prsi record.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Absolutely. Apply by April 2023 at all costs to buy back years and continue to make them until you have the 35 years for a full UK state pension.

Class 2 voluntary NICs are £3 a week and the best investment return I know of.



I diaagree. As advised above, better to make voluntary contributions in the UK and not use UK contribution history to get to 40/40 in Ireland. 37/40 of an Irish state pension and a full UK one is much better.



I don't think so. You need 520 paid contributions to make voluntary PRSI contributions and OP didn't have that before the gap occured.
Click to expand...
I hadn't considered buying back enough for a full UK pension (just enough to get the minimum 10 years) but it sounds like a no-brainer to get the 35 years. If I apply to bring myself to 10 years worth of contributions by April 2023, can I hold off on paying the remaining 25 years in a lump sum until later or can I pay in regular installments?
Apologies, it was actually just an Instagram post by Eoin McGee that drew my attention to this so I'm fairly light on detail.
 
bstop said:
You will have some pre entry credits for your first year of employment (2003)
These are paid back to the start of 2003. If you started working roughly half way through the year you could have maybe about 26 credits. These pre entry credits do not show on your Prsi record.
Click to expand...
It was just a summer / Christmas job I has when I was 16 so I wouldn't have thought I'd have pre-entry credits
 
galgal5003 said:
I hadn't considered buying back enough for a full UK pension (just enough to get the minimum 10 years) but it sounds like a no-brainer to get the 35 years.
Click to expand...
At your age you can still just buy forward and get to the full 35 years by 67. You just make the lump sum payment once a year. Lots of AAM threads on this if you look.

It's no harm applying already to buy back 2016-date contributions via form NI38 even if you don't exercise it.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
I don't think so. You need 520 paid contributions to make voluntary PRSI contributions and OP didn't have that before the gap occured.
Click to expand...

Correct for the existing gap (as my reply did state!).

But the main thrust of my comment related to what she might wish to do in about 25 years' time!
 
Hi, can anyone point me to where I can find out more about how to make voluntary PRSI contributions and how much they cost? Thanks.
 
bstop said:
You will have some pre entry credits for your first year of employment (2003)
These are paid back to the start of 2003. If you started working roughly half way through the year you could have maybe about 26 credits. These pre entry credits do not show on your Prsi record.
Click to expand...
This is interesting. Is there any way to find out about these entry credits? Are they only issued when the application for the pension is actually made?
 
murphaph1 said:
This is interesting. Is there any way to find out about these entry credits? Are they only issued when the application for the pension is actually made?
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They are usually shown on your Contributions Statement which is available from DSP (you cn request it online from mywelfare.ie if you have a verified public services card. They appear on mine (i.e. I started working in September, my record for that year shows 20 paid contributions and 32 credited contributions)

The following appears in the preamble to the Contribution Statement:
Pre-Entry Credits

Credits contained on records will be validated only when the Department is in receipt of a customer’s full employment history. Pre entry credits (PECS) are awarded when a person takes up insurable employment for the first time and pays a full rate contribution. PECS are awarded from the beginning of the relevant contribution year to the date of commencement of insurable employment, and are taken into account for all benefits. PECs may not be displayed on the enclosed record, but will be taken into account, as applicable, when eligibility for any scheme is under consideration.
Click to expand...
 
Freelance said:
They are usually shown on your Contributions Statement which is available from DSP (you cn request it online from mywelfare.ie if you have a verified public services card. They appear on mine (i.e. I started working in September, my record for that year shows 20 paid contributions and 32 credited contributions)

The following appears in the preamble to the Contribution Statement:
Click to expand...

I started employment towards the end of my pre-entry year, and my record shows 10A paid, but 0 credited.

I know they will be taken into account when applicable, but I'm curious why some statements show them and some don't.
 
The only reason I can think of is that I started working before 1979 - and therefore my initial years predated the PRSI scheme. When the PRSI scheme was introduced in 1979, prior payments (flat rate social insurance contributions under the old scheme) may have been input to the new PRSI records system if the previous system was being shut down. My fist year shows 20 ORD (paid) and 32 Credited. The ORD (for ordinary) is replaced with A1 for the years from 1979/80 onwards.
 
Freelance said:
The only reason I can think of is that I started working before 1979 - and therefore my initial years predated the PRSI scheme. When the PRSI scheme was introduced in 1979, prior payments (flat rate social insurance contributions under the old scheme) may have been input to the new PRSI records system if the previous system was being shut down. My fist year shows 20 ORD (paid) and 32 Credited. The ORD (for ordinary) is replaced with A1 for the years from 1979/80 onwards.
Click to expand...
I don't think starting work before 1979 makes a difference.
I also started work before 1979 and I have requested Prsi statements every year for at least the last 10 years. One of these yearly statements showed my pec's.
All the others, some beforehand and some after don't show the pec's.
It seems to be a random quirk in the system, that pec's are sometime shown.
 
murphaph1 said:
I have such a statement. Will check it out in the morning. Cheers!
Click to expand...
I Don't see any pre-entry credits in the first year on my record. It says:
1995/1996 Paid Contributions 18 A7, 13 A0. Reckonable paid contributions for pension: 31.

How were PEC's handled when the financial year ran April-April? Would you have been credited with PEC's going back to the April before you started work only perhaps?

I turned 16 in November 1996 so is this perhaps the reason I don't see anything like 52 PRSI credits? Am I actually being given reckonable credits that I should not be because it says contributions before 16th birthday should not be reckonable, but I have 31 reckonable contributions from April 1995 to April 1996, whereupon I hadn't even turned 16 for another 7 months!

The system seems truly impenetrable! I am also pretty sure that I am missing many contributions from a year long part time (but weekly) employment from which ran from July 1996 to July 1997. I still have the reference the employer wrote for me covering this period but there are only a miserable 6 Class A contributions under 1996/1997 and nothing else. Something is wrong there but I was a kid so maybe they were paying me under the table. I don't recall if we got proper payslips. I expect such things are hopeless cases of course.
 
In my case I started work in September 1975. I got a few Prsi statements showing the PECS and they went back to January 1975. I assume it's to the start of the calender year you began employment.
Under 16s don't pay A class Prsi. Your period of paying reckonable contributions runs from your 16th birthday until your 66th birthday.
Your record is showing paid contributions only. If it was showing credits they would be in the reckonable credited column. Maybe an employer paid Prsi for you before you reached 16 by mistake.
Or it could be that your Prsi for 1996/1997 was entered in year 1995/1996 by mistake.
 
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