Spain, France, Italy - Best place to buy.

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BOXtheFOX

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Some family members are thinking of purchasing a holiday home abroad. Spain, France and Italy as well as Southern Germany have been suggested as likely places to purchase. Can anyone advise as to which of the above countries will have the lowest running costs to own a property in. From the point of view of Electricity, Water, Gas, House Insurance, Rates/property tax, other etc.
Another consideration would be the availability of good healthcare. Most are leaning toward France because of access with a car.
 
Surely, if they are buying a holiday home, the thing they should consider first is a location where they would like to go on holiday regularly. If they buy a holiday home they would probably feel obliged to go there very often to make best use of it. Therefore it should be in a location that they like and will not get bored with going there often.

There is no point in buying a holiday home that is cheap to run if the location is not right.
 
I think the OP question is a valid one, whats the point of a good location if you can't afford to live there? find the next best.
 
I don't think that there is anything wrong with looking at the annual running costs of a property. Within a family group there might be preferences about location, such as Spain over France etc but if everyone is fairly laid back about the location then costs would come in to it. Not everyone in a family would have an equal wealth so there would be some issues about running costs.
 
DONT KNOW IF FOLLOWING IS ANY HELP...

My sister bought property in France about 8 years ago. Prices have not Compared to eire property wasnt expensive anyway. She also had a look at spain at the time but for the following reasons she chose france. She lives in west of ireland and her property is half way down on west coast of france.

There are 5 flights to France from Dublin that suit this region in FRance
Flights from shannon to Nantes from march to october.
Boat to france from rosslare and cork - for summer she brings the car.

Major plus...flights from shannon are so so cheap to nantes for weekends. She can take flight friday morning and back monday evening. With 3 kids she still manages to go to france 8/9 times a year. As previous posts stated no point in having the place if you are not going to use it. Big plus for her is that the flights are so so cheap. She is going for week at halloween and paid 16e each way tax etc. incl. theses are the kind of flights she gets all the time. She leaves her house in galway and is in her house in france within 5 and half hours...this is a fact as Ive travelled with her once. The flight shannon to nantes is about 1 hour with Ryanair, can be 1 hour 15 mins max. You can also fly from Cork to La Rochelle during the summer.

Her car hire for halloween for 5 days is 128euro.

Cheap to eat there, she doesnt eat out much but bread, milk etc is cheap.

Shes been to doctor there with kids etc. cost 11euro

Its not too hot during the summer and they are out the country so there are cycle lanes everywhere and the beach all around.

Conclusion:t

All in all i think if i were to go anywhere it would be france. It easy to get to from ireland and cheaper than spain/lanzorote/florida etc. This is a big big plus and also that the travel journey by plane is so short, 1 hour 15 mins max. Also big plus is that its very gettable by boat.

Its not too hot during summertime, for cycling walking, etc Very laid back atmosphere. Relaxing lifestyle and excellent health system. Great healthy food.

Oh if only I had money...but unfortunately ive to pay back the bills my neighbours incurred having a good time over the last 10 years!!!!!

Good luck with your decision...
 
In today's economic climate the purchase of foreign property is akin to backing a horse in the Grand National at Aintree. You probably have a better chance of making money at Aintree gambling. It is only a few short years since Ireland's population went mad buying in Spain, USA, France, Italy etc. Many are in negative equity bigtime as a result.

Where is cheapest to live? This depends on much i.e if you live on an urbanisation you will be liable for your share of cost of public lighting, community fees, water charges, local tax etc. Shops/supermarkets tend to be cheaper than ours nearly everywhere in Europe. No matter which way you turn it will cost. Especially in Spain, you tend to pay more taxes that what you ever dreamed of. Non Resident Tax, Resident Tax, Household Tax, Urbanisation tax, Income Tax from letting (eventhough you might not have obtained even one let).

Far away fields are green. Spain, Italy are a notch above Junk in the economic stakes. Obviously, it will take years for any sort of recovery. Personally, I believe there is much worse to come in Spain, Italy and France.

I'm keeping this as short as possible. Everybody would like to retreat to sunny climes especially over our winter/spring. You do not have to purchase a property to do this. Repeat, you do not have to purchase a property to do this. You can rent cheaply at around €500 per month off season in southern Spain for a 2 bedroom, centrally located, close to beach property. This is not too much to pay for rent when you have to spend around €1200 per month to cover a mortgage having purchased a property. Renting is wiser in the off season and you are not tied to one location, you can go elsewhere if you wish the following season or even the folllowing month.
 
Leper is absolutely spot on in everything he says.

Unless one is spending at least a total of a 100 days a year in a place I can see no economic reason to buy.

And even though in some countries there are recent price drops these are matched by desperate governments slapping on ever more taxes, especially on second homes.
 
It certainly makes more sense to rent than to purchase. I suppose not putting your own stamp on a place is not that important. You can settle in to a rental very quickly and it almost becomes your own. Being able to choose different places to visit in different countries is also an advantage in not owning. You also avoid the problems associated with ownership.
With all sorts of utility bills, health insurance costs, flight costs, taxes increasing daily both home and abroad it seems to be a case of batten down the hatches and to try and survive.
 
On the other hand I have a small (very) place abroad and it is vastly preferable than renting for all kinds of reasons e.g.
I just want to be away in my own place somewhere sunny,
I travel for work and don't want to be "on holidays" away,
I don't want to spend 2 or 3 days of a short break finding out where to eat/best restaurants etc,
I want to sleep in my own bed,
I want to cook in my own kitchen with my own utensils,
I have found many overseas rentals very disappointing when I arrive,
I don't want to pay a premium as a sometimes single traveller,
I want to be able to go when I want to go - not on handover day or having to avoid prime times because of costs.

So - it all depends on what you are looking for. I have friends with ants in their pants who cannot bear the idea of being in the same place for more than a few nights. For them leaving Ireland is all about perpetual motion - not for me, I like to grind to a halt.....
 
I reckon Putsch has the right idea there. My parents have a house in France, now that they've retired they spend the whole summer there, but even off-peak they know that they can hop over with a carry-on bag (as they leave clothes there) and just get away for a while, handy if there are special offers available at short notice.
 
Owning a smaller house in Ireland and another property in France or Spain and dividing your time between both places seems ideal. However with fixed taxes and charges in both countries unavoidable, you end up effectively paying on the double, even though you might only spend 6 months in each location. It certainly seems more economical to rent but Putsch and dereko1969 opinions sound good too.

With inheritance tax thresholds dropping all the time the thought occured to me to purchase a property abroad but to buy it in one or all of my children's name. I would be downsizing here to be able to do this. The idea being that when I die, my smaller property here will be within the inheritance thresholds so that my children will be able to inherit it tax free. Would the overseas property be excluded from inheritance tax if I were to buy it now in my chidrens names.
 
Odea- if you gift your kids a certain amount (e.g. 3 kids x 100k on a 300k house) then the kids will lose 100k of the threshold that they presently are entitled to when you die.
Crudely - for every cent you gift them now will be taken off the threshold limit.

So, buying your new house here which is worth under the present threshold limit won't mean much as you have effectively lowered the threshold limit by gifting some of your assets.

Reading what I just have written I don't think i was very clear !
 
Thanks Oldnick. I thought that was the case all right. I think it is time that I started working on a strategy to sort out this problem.
 
It's not a good idea to put property into childrens names in any case. You might need the money later in your life. For medical care etc.
 
Bronte said:
It's not a good idea to put property into childrens names in any case. You might need the money later in your life. For medical care etc.
Click to expand...

You seem to be focussing on what worries you or your strange perceptions of other peoples lives rather than what is actually being discussed.
 
Bronte said:
It's not a good idea to put property into childrens names in any case. You might need the money later in your life. For medical care etc.
Click to expand...

Strange comment.

I would be happy to think that if I did put property in my childrens names that they would look after me. There would be lots of discussion around this issue with them before doing so.
 
The best thing about buying a holiday/foreign property is selling it!
If you feel you must though,avoid France,high taxes and dealing with the french legal system and estate agents can give you ulcers!



Pat
 
postman pat said:
The best thing about buying a holiday/foreign property is selling it!
If you feel you must though,avoid France,high taxes and dealing with the french legal system and estate agents can give you ulcers!



Pat
Click to expand...

Well said, especially in these trying times and that is of course, if you have a buyer (unlikely).
 
Why did people purchase overseas holiday homes if all they want to do now is sell them? I would have thought that you would purchase a holiday home for the long term to enjoy holidays or retire?
I can understand those with mortgages on them whose financial circumstances have changed etc but in the main were these properties purchased just for the sake of buying them?
 
Hello,

Speaking as the "proud owner" of a property in France, along with associated mortgage from a French lender, I think there's a few key questions to ask:

- Is this purely a holiday home, or also some form of investment or money making project ?

Assuming it is purely for holiday use, ensure it has excellent access, at very affordable rates through various means (i.e. don't just buy because Ryanair currently land nearby, as that could change quickly).

If it's an investment, then what is it's genuine chances of earning the income you want or need, from this property and to figure this out, you need to do some genuine research .. don't be fooled by the term "guaranteed rent".


- Check out the tax rates, for property tax, along with all other costs associated with owning the property & don't just take the word of the property agent who is selling the property.

As we are all learning the hard way of late, there's more to owning a property than just the initial acquisition costs, there are also: property taxes, water charges, management and service charges, costs for repairs etc.


- Check out the legal situation, in terms of true ownership of the property & consider such things as the costs associated with selling the property, not just the cost of buying it (given some day, perhaps sooner than you think, these may need to be paid). Find out if there are any restrictions on who the property can be sold to, if there is any tax clawback if you sell it within a certain period of time after acquiring it, if there's any restrictions regarding who can own it, what happens if multiple people own it and then fall out, if there are restrictions on who the property can be left to (by way of future inherritance) etc.


On mature reflection, we would not have purchased our property and while it was bought with a long term strategy in mind, so was always going to have a mortgage to be repaid, we genuinely never envisaged the problems we've had with our unit and from reading posts across the internet, I think a lot of others feel much the same - regardless of where they bought etc.

Slow and cautious steps, are recommended :)

Regards

Mr. Earl.
 
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