Son starting college, should we rent or buy?

Roro999 said:
Can you direct me to rules. Our joint income falls below 55k if we exclude invalidity pension.
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Google student grants and click on citizen's advice.
Unfortunately invalidity pension is not excluded we are in the same boat.
It gives a list of income disregards carers allowance etc.there isnt that many unfortunately.
 
Cavanbhoy said:
I was just working of op figures and not suggesting he forgoes anything.
Gross salary of 80k if he contributes his full allowance to his pension it will safe him 10k in taxes. Plus he will save 14k on college expenses. Total of 24k.
So to make a 27k pension contribution in this scenario would cost him a total of 3k net.
It would be hard to beat that roi anywhere
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Gross income​

Gross income includes income before any deductions made for PAYE, income tax and other taxes, PRSI, income levies, etc. and also includes income that is described as “tax-free”, “tax-paid”, “not liable to tax” or “exempt from tax.

If you are unsure whether any income should be included in your application you should provide details of this income in the application form.

SUSI may receive data from the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Social Protection to assist in the evaluation and processing of your grant application. After the provisional assessment of your application you may be asked to send SUSI documentary evidence of your declared income.
 
Cavanbhoy said:
You are mistaken it is
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I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out. Great to know.


There are also some further deductions that can be made, as follows:​

(a) in respect of income from employment, employment-related expenses as approved by the Revenue Commissioners that appear on your Statement of Liability, (formerly P21);

(b) income from employment which represents holiday earnings outside of term time, maximum €4,500;

(c) maintenance payments made under a legally enforceable arrangement to a separated spouse, as approved by the Revenue Commissioners that appear on your Statement of Liability, (formerly P21);

(d) contributions to pension schemes and pension or retirement products, paid in the reference period only, within the limits allowed by the Revenue Commissioners that appear on your Statement of Liability, (formerly P21) and

(e) overtime payments earned in the reference period (2020) that are not recurring payments.

We may be able to confirm the amounts of these payments directly with Revenue on your behalf, however we will request documentary evidence from you where necessary, such as payslips or a letter from your employer.
 
Chelseablue said:
Things that do happen!!!!, his kid received a SUSI grant
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If he really was very wealthy, he must have become so by inheriting it :) because anyone who'd say something like that, and mean it, wouldn't be the sharpest tool in the drawer.

There are more pub stories and urban myths out there about rich people getting SUSI grants than almost anything else. The reality is somewhat different. A good few years ago, I did some quick sums and worked out that a kid with both parents working for 40 hours a week each, at 10% more than the minimum wage at the time, would only get a partial grant, and I concluded on that basis that it would be more honest for the State to end the pretence and hand over the whole SUSI shebang to the Dept of Social Welfare.
 
T McGibney said:
If he really was very wealthy, he must have become so by inheriting it :) because anyone who'd say something like that, and mean it, wouldn't be the sharpest tool in the drawer.

There are more pub stories and urban myths out there about rich people getting SUSI grants than almost anything else. The reality is somewhat different. A good few years ago, I did some quick sums and worked out that a kid with both parents working for 40 hours a week each, at 10% more than the minimum wage at the time, would only get a partial grant, and I concluded on that basis that it would be more honest for the State to end the pretence and hand over the whole SUSI shebang to the Dept of Social Welfare.
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It would be more honest, but it would also be more honest to assess the student as an adult.
In other words, base the grant on their own income and assets, rather than parents who may still be struggling with celtic tiger mortgages ( that cohort will now be seeing their children entering college education).

I've had an interesting time delving into the Dublin property market , for rentals and purchase, over the last couple of weeks.
The dysfunctionality is mind boggling. Huge numbers of desperate people, lined up outside poorly built, badly maintained, cramped blocks of flats, in the early morning rain. All, literally, begging to be allowed to give half their salary to some absentee landlord.
I was looking at one apartment for sale and was met with a huge queue stretching down the road.
The Estate Agent lead me away and told me the queue was for a rental in the same block. The rent for a 50 square metre 2 bedder was around 2.3k per month. He said that these people were the lucky ones, the ones who had been deemed worthy of viewing the flat. He gets hundreds of emails for every rental and ignores most of them, picking a few, at random, for the viewings.
So, why don't these people buy, instead of rent, I said. I mean, they looked like people young enough to get 35 year mortgages, which would be about 850 a month for a 250k mortgage. Of course, the reason was simple. They have no capital, and no way of getting capital. They were most likely, low paid, but essential workers. The Health Care Assistants, the cleaners, the shop workers, the factory production line staff, the security guards, the warehouse operatives and they, probably, earned below average wages, 30k or less. Now, they would be gouged for rents they couldn't possibly afford. So HAP would come in to make up the difference. So , not only are wealthy landlords grabbing large portions of low paid workers wages, they are getting a big sloppy handout from the taxpayer.
 
Allpartied said:
It would be more honest, but it would also be more honest to assess the student as an adult.
In other words, base the grant on their own income and assets, rather than parents who may still be struggling with celtic tiger mortgages ( that cohort will now be seeing their children entering college education).

I've had an interesting time delving into the Dublin property market , for rentals and purchase, over the last couple of weeks.
The dysfunctionality is mind boggling. Huge numbers of desperate people, lined up outside poorly built, badly maintained, cramped blocks of flats, in the early morning rain. All, literally, begging to be allowed to give half their salary to some absentee landlord.
I was looking at one apartment for sale and was met with a huge queue stretching down the road.
The Estate Agent lead me away and told me the queue was for a rental in the same block. The rent for a 50 square metre 2 bedder was around 2.3k per month. He said that these people were the lucky ones, the ones who had been deemed worthy of viewing the flat. He gets hundreds of emails for every rental and ignores most of them, picking a few, at random, for the viewings.
So, why don't these people buy, instead of rent, I said. I mean, they looked like people young enough to get 35 year mortgages, which would be about 850 a month for a 250k mortgage. Of course, the reason was simple. They have no capital, and no way of getting capital. They were most likely, low paid, but essential workers. The Health Care Assistants, the cleaners, the shop workers, the factory production line staff, the security guards, the warehouse operatives and they, probably, earned below average wages, 30k or less. Now, they would be gouged for rents they couldn't possibly afford. So HAP would come in to make up the difference. So , not only are wealthy landlords grabbing large portions of low paid workers wages, they are getting a big sloppy handout from the taxpayer.
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I agree with pretty much all of this except your last sentence. It was politicians and civil servants, not landlords, who in 2009 decided to turn our housing surplus into a shortage and who in the intervening 13 years have repeatedly doubled down on this blunder to the point that what started as a localised shortage has deteriorated into a full-blown nationwide disaster. Blaming landlords for this is like blaming filling stations for your rocketing diesel bills.

As for your comment about absentee landlords, isn't it a good thing that tenants don't have to share their homes with their landlords?
 
T McGibney said:
I agree with pretty much all of this except your last sentence. It was politicians and civil servants, not landlords, who in 2009 decided to turn our housing surplus into a shortage and who in the intervening 13 years have repeatedly doubled down on this blunder to the point that what started as a localised shortage has deteriorated into a full-blown nationwide disaster. Blaming landlords for this is like blaming filling stations for your rocketing diesel bills.

As for your comment about absentee landlords, isn't it a good thing that tenants don't have to share their homes with their landlords?
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It is, of course, the government's fault. Landlords are simply using the housing market to profiteer, that's the whole point of landlordism. Their motivation is profit, making money. The government makes housing policy and they have plumped for the private, market solution.
The govt is ideologically tied to the market solution. Its obvious failure will not budge them. At this stage, the only housing policy that makes sense is the People Before Profit option of wholesale seizure of empty buildings and build for rent apartment blocks. Proper management, proper rents, security of tenure for Irish citizens and emergency accommodation for the tens of thousands of refugees.
 
Allpartied said:
At this stage, the only housing policy that makes sense is the People Before Profit option of wholesale seizure of empty buildings and build for rent apartment blocks. Proper management, proper rents, security of tenure for Irish citizens and emergency accommodation for the tens of thousands of refugees.
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Bless your innocence.

People Before Profit are directly to blame for this entire mess. They were at the front of the hard left chorus in 2009, along with the Socialist Party and Sinn Féin, that demanded the imposition of punitive tax and other measures to screw landlords and effectively shut down new residential property investment and housebuilding, even though our population was rising and it was inevitable that this would cause a housing shortage. They have never even once called for this insane policy move to be renounced and reversed.

Your claim that the government "is ideologically tied to the market solution" has no basis in reality as long as it micro-manages the housing and property development market while simultaneously remaining as its biggest landlord, tenant and land hoarder.
 
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T McGibney said:
Bless your innocence.

People Before Profit are directly to blame for this entire mess. They were at the front of the hard left chorus in 2009, along with the Socialist Party and Sinn Féin, that demanding the imposition of punitive tax and other measures to screw landlords and effectively shut down new residential property investment and housebuilding.

Your claim that the government "is ideologically tied to the market solution" has no basis in reality as long as it micro-manages the housing and property development market while simultaneously remaining as its biggest landlord, tenant and land hoarder.
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Proper housing policy involves large scale, publicly funded, council housing. It was the norm in the 80's and 70's. It was largley abandoned at that stage and private profit became the main motivation of all housing policy.
I grew up in a council house, secure lifelong tenancy, low rent, properly maintained, located close to all amenities, in a large city. We moved into the house in 1977. My parents, both low paid working people, had the choice of three properties to pick. All three bedroomed houses, with front and back gardens. My mother still lives in the house.
That was nearly 50 years ago. Things are supposed to improve, but they have gone backwards to the rackrent days of the dismal past.

And blaming opposition parties for government failure, certainly has no basis in reality.
 
Allpartied said:
Proper housing policy involves large scale, publicly funded, council housing. It was the norm in the 80's and 70's. It was largley abandoned at that stage and private profit became the main motivation of all housing policy.
I grew up in a council house, secure lifelong tenancy, low rent, properly maintained, located close to all amenities, in a large city. We moved into the house in 1977. My parents, both low paid working people, had the choice of three properties to pick. All three bedroomed houses, with front and back gardens. My mother still lives in the house.
That was nearly 50 years ago. Things are supposed to improve, but they have gone backwards to the rackrent days of the dismal past.
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There is a very good reason for this. Your council house in 1977 was built very cheaply, on the back of what would now be termed almost slave wages and to minimal standards in terms of insulation and other modern conveniences. A stark contrast to today's council houses which cost upwards of €250k plus site cost. Public housing is now a massive money pit for developed economy governments and its economics are now an impossible problem for governments to square.

Allpartied said:
And blaming opposition parties for government failure, certainly has no basis in reality.
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No, I blame all the political parties for this failure, but reserve special contempt for those who complain about it while denying their role in creating it.
 
T McGibney said:
There is a very good reason for this. Your council house in 1977 was built very cheaply.
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Our house is still council owned, but most of the others were sold off in the 80's, to the tenants.

They, currently, retail at about 750k and, with proper maintenance, will last another 100 years.
 
Allpartied said:
Our house is still council owned, but most of the others were sold off in the 80's, to the tenants.

They, currently, retail at about 750k and, with proper maintenance, will last another 100 years.
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That doesn't contradict my point that it's now impossible for the State to replicate what it did in the 1970s in building cheap homes for long-term rent.

Those houses only retail at 750k now because the government, backed by People Before Profit, have rigged the market by constructively banning new supply for over a decade. At the current rate of going the next generation living there will be millionaires.
 
All politicians regardless of Party have had a part to play in the housing crisis. Its being going on decades.

Wartime emergency housing is what's needed at this point.
 
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T McGibney said:
I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out. Great to know.


There are also some further deductions that can be made, as follows:​

(a) in respect of income from employment, employment-related expenses as approved by the Revenue Commissioners that appear on your Statement of Liability, (formerly P21);

(b) income from employment which represents holiday earnings outside of term time, maximum €4,500;

(c) maintenance payments made under a legally enforceable arrangement to a separated spouse, as approved by the Revenue Commissioners that appear on your Statement of Liability, (formerly P21);

(d) contributions to pension schemes and pension or retirement products, paid in the reference period only, within the limits allowed by the Revenue Commissioners that appear on your Statement of Liability, (formerly P21) and

(e) overtime payments earned in the reference period (2020) that are not recurring payments.

We may be able to confirm the amounts of these payments directly with Revenue on your behalf, however we will request documentary evidence from you where necessary, such as payslips or a letter from your employer.
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So under (d) if gross income is 60k and pension contributions/avc's on Statement of Liability are 15k in tax year 2021 SUSI take the means income as 45k. Is that right ?
 
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