Some plain speaking from the chair of the RTB

[Brendan Burgess]

Landlords ‘are kind of price takers in the market’, says chair of RTB

Competitive bidding between those wishing to rent more properties a major factor in driving prices up, says Tom Dunne

www.irishtimes.com

A lack of supply was forcing people seeking to rent accommodation to bid against each other and this was a big contributor to driving up prices, he said.

The “notion” that landlords could and did charge what they wanted was not quite the whole story, said Mr Dunne.

...
Mr Dunne said that problem would not be resolved without an increase in supply. When asked if the Housing Assistance Payment (HAP) should be increased so people in receipt could also pay more to get security of tenure he replied it should not, warning that people who receive the subsidy would then be able to outbid those on low incomes who do not receive HAP.

...

Changing the rules around evictions would create even more problems, he said. If the rules change it could encourage landlords who rent out their accommodation temporarily not to do so because it would mean they could not regain possession.

 

[jpd]

Economics 101

 

[Gervan]

Meanwhile this

People renting a room ‘effectively have no rights’, housing charity says

‘Paradox’ in rent-a-room tax breaks compared to small landlords, Threshold says

www.irishtimes.com

puts fear into my heart as a provider of rooms for the past 4 years.

I have shared my house with students, and people new to the area looking for their own place, usually for a few months, longer when Covid hit. But always knowing the house was in my control if difficulties arose. Any "profit" after paying extra electricity, heating, and bin costs, or replacing appliances has been put back into making a more comfortable home for the next paying guests.
I won't be the only one closing my doors if that changes.
Do they really want another housing option to close?

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

Changing the rules around evictions would create even more problems, he said. If the rules change it could encourage landlords who rent out their accommodation temporarily not to do so because it would mean they could not regain possession.

There's a bit of self interest no doubt here too.
I suspect the RTB is clogged up with tenants challenging terminations of tenancy by landlords leaving the market at the moment.

 

[Mocame]

He is also correct about he demonisation of institutional landlords in Ireland. Large organisations can bear stronger regulation more easily than 'amateur' landlords with one rental property can. Small landlords may buy a property to let with a view to letting their kids use it when they are in college, or they need to sell because they become unemployed and need the cash. So long term tenancies are very unattractive to this cohort of landlords. In contrast instructional landlords are seeking a long term return.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Economics 101

But that is often missing from the public discourse!

 

[Brendan Burgess]

There's a bit of self interest no doubt here too.

What are you suggesting? That the Chairman of the RTB wants an easy life and fewer disputes?

He wouldn't be remotely influenced by that. If there were a proposal on some minor issue e.g. rental deposits, he might say that the overhead in hearing them did not justify the potential gain or loss to the tenant and landlord.

Brendan

 

[AlbacoreA]

I suspect the RTB is a bit of echo chamber for Govt as they never really give any insights into their own data other than to mirror the govt statements. Their data always seems to be selective in what it shows. And it can be hard to get other information from it.

 

[AlbacoreA]

He is also correct about he demonisation of institutional landlords in Ireland. Large organisations can bear stronger regulation more easily than 'amateur' landlords with one rental property can. Small landlords may buy a property to let with a view to letting their kids use it when they are in college, or they need to sell because they become unemployed and need the cash. So long term tenancies are very unattractive to this cohort of landlords. In contrast instructional landlords are seeking a long term return.

What Demonization? Where are you getting that from?

I suspect most landlords regardless of size are hoping for a long term return. Mortgages are rarely short term and even cash buyers I assume aren't flipping btl properties on a regular basis.

 

[AlbacoreA]

He's basically saying it's all about supply and everything else is rearranging the furniture.

 

[Mocame]

What Demonization? Where are you getting that from?

I suspect most landlords regardless of size are hoping for a long term return. Mortgages are rarely short term and even cash buyers I assume aren't flipping btl properties on a regular basis.

Well here is a example of the demonisation of intuitional landlords in this Irish Examiner article which misquoted the RTB chair's comments:

Vulture funds 'best landlords', says tenancies board chief

Warning that winter eviction ban may lead some landlords to leave rental market

www.irishexaminer.com

The headline accuses him of saying that 'vulture funds' make better landlords, whereas in fact what he said is that intuitional landlords are more willing to provide long term tenancies than small landlords. This point is an obvious one and borne out in other European countries. In Germany most landlords are large institutional investors or owners of small businesses who invest in rented housing as part of the company pension fund.

The media coverage of this sector and also the Twitter debate has been overwhelmingly negative and they are accused of bidding against first time buyers if they buy existing properties and accused of inflating land prices if they build new rented accommodation.

Of course none of the critics have any idea of who will provide rented accommodation in the absence of these investors and with small landlords fleeing the market. The stock answer is 'the state needs to be doing more' as if the state should be providing accommodation for trainee accountants or software engineers working in Google!

 

[AlbacoreA]

So there is no demonization in the article quoted. I thought I'd missed something in it.

I don't disagree of anything you've posted.

But I would wonder how much the association of Intuitional landlord with longer rentals is due to the regulations and enforcements of same in those countries and their cultural habits. I would love to see some data on the Irish market and other countries how long on average a person rents the same place (note not tenancy). I suspect there's a lot of assumptions being made about the market that may not be borne out by the data if it was available.

For example all the positives usually associated with institutional landlord's in the media here are not reflected in the experiences in other countries. (To honest it was the same with RPZ and we refused to learn from others in that aswell).

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Berliners back seizing housing from so-called mega landlords

In a referendum on Sunday timed to coincide with Germany's general election on Sunday, locals supported expropriation by 56% to 39%. #UncoveringEurope

www.euronews.com

We've had our own experiences where large landlords have tried mass evictions in a more than one case leading to the 'Tyrrelstown’ amendment.

 

[triggs]

We have an agency(RTB)hardly contactable who threaten ordinary tax paying ,law abiding Irish citizens who happen to own a second property which they rent out at well below market rates(It is a fully fledged free-market economy which we inhabit and should protect) with fines of various flavour and ,get it,6 months imprisonment for some infringement.I find this offensive and worry for the future with regard to legislation which attempts to protect us from ourselves.We are basically a decent people.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

The RTB operates within the legislation it was set up under.

Complain to the politicians about the stupid laws, and not the agency charged with enforcing them.

Brendan

 

[Tuscany]

I think that the RTB are meeting the Housing Committee tomorrow. That should be an interesting conversation.

 

[Purple]

I think that the RTB are meeting the Housing Committee tomorrow. That should be an interesting conversation.

Why? Which member is going to ask the hard questions?
Eoin Ó Broin won't, either will Ruth Coppinger or Grace O'Sullivan.
Mattie McGrath won't and either will Victor Boylan. Barry Cowan is painfully populist so he won't either and the rest of the Government TD's will keep their heads down.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

and not the agency charged with enforcing them.

The RTB has considerable discretion in how it exercises many of its powers.

From personal experience their definition of "normal wear and tear" is ridiculously generous. From personal experience they interpret any ambiguity in correspondence as automatically being in favour of the tenant.

Many landlords on AAM have attested to this.

 

[triggs]

Interesting exchange at Oireachtas Housing Committee 15 Oct 2019.Chairman of RTB proferred an opinion that Landlords were leaving the market because of difficult Tenants and that Ireland had strong Tenancy rights.S.F housing spokesperson disagreed.He said Landlords were leaving because property prices had recovered to a point where Landlords could break even.A prescient observation and just a little premature in light of increasing prices.However my worry is this- is he implying that Landlords should not behave rationally in selling at an opportune time.If so is the concept of Rational Consumer to be suspended at the alter of some dystopian revision of conventional economic practice.I am afraid it is and do not see any point in complaining to some politicians who seem to occupy a Universe which is parallel to mine and who one day could assume office in our country

 

[Groucho]

Why? Which member is going to ask the hard questions?
Eoin Ó Broin won't, either will Ruth Coppinger or Grace O'Sullivan. Mattie McGrath won't and either will Victor Boylan. Barry Cowan is painfully populist so he won't either and the rest of the Government TD's will keep their heads down.

It'll be difficult for Ruth Coppinger to ask any hard questions seeing as she's no longer a member of the Oireachtas - DG!
And Grace O'Sullivan is an MEP so is unlikely to be in the vicinity of Kildare Street tomorrow!

(Incidentally, I assume that you meant Senator Victor Boyhan, rather than Senator Lynn Boylan!)

 

[Purple]

It'll be difficult for Ruth Coppinger to ask any hard questions seeing as she's no longer a member of the Oireachtas - DG!
And Grace O'Sullivan is an MEP so is unlikely to be in the vicinity of Kildare Street tomorrow!

(Incidentally, I assume that you meant Senator Victor Bohan, rather than Senator Lynn Boylan!)

Sorry, I haven't looked at the membership for a while.