Motor Some car insurance questions.

[CiniO]

I went through my car insurance policy document.
I'm insured with Allianz.
Here's the document:

allianz.ie/Car-Insurance/FAQs/Motor_Policy_Document_0509.pdf

I've few doubts.

1. Section 1 of policy document describes third party cover. One thing took my attention

This section of your policy does not
cover:
(....)
3. any person other than you if such
person is insured under another
motor insurance policy

In my case I have my wife as a named driver, as she drive my car sometimes.

What I understand from quotation above, that anyone (even if named on my policy) if he/she has his/her own insurance policy, is not covered under this section.
So in other words, my wife, has her own policy (with extension allowing her to drive other cars), and even she is named on my policy, she is not covered with third party cover under my policy. (hence that with other parts of policy like fire, theft, own car damage, she is covered).
So if she will cause an accident driving my car, damage to someone else property (or someone elses injury) will have to be paid from her policy (with driving other cars extension), and damage to my car will be paid from my policy. Heh - fair play to insurance companies, as that is so smart, that we both loose NCB in case of such an accident, as both policies will be claimed from.

But actually my doubt is different.
What if that other person, has policy, but that policy doesn't cover driving other cars? Does it mean, that even if that person is named on my policy, she/hs's not covered with third party cover, which makes her/him driving uninsured? Am I right.
Also what is my case, I'm going on holidays to the Continent in future. We are driving my car there, and my wife's car is staying in Ireland parked. What I was thinking, that she'll suspend her policy for the time her car is not used. But now I'm not sure, if then while she'll be driving my car on the Continent, will she be still insured. Because even her policy will be suspended, she still will have that policy, which according to conditions on my policy, makes her uninsured with my policy, even that her policy is suspended and doesn't work.
This makes me confused, and I know there's no point in calling my insurers customer service line, as they knowledge is very little, and I already realised, they have no clue about much simpler matters, so they obviously wouldn't be able to help me with this.


2. Another thing from policy document:

Claims procedure
In connection with any injury, loss or
damage which may give rise to a
claim under the policy you must:
1. not admit liability for or sign any
statement to this effect or
negotiate the settlement of any
claim without our written
agreement

That's clear enough if claim is in Ireland.
That want to protect themselves against some drivers that would admit liability, even if they were not liable for accident.
But on the Continent, in most cases if there's even a small crash with foreign car (Irish reg car will be foreign car for them), there will be police called. When they come, they will investigate the scene, and state whose fault was it. They will most likely issue a fixed penalty for the driver who was at fault, and by accepting penalty you accept liability for causing a crash.
What now?
If that happens to me, what should I do?
Should I not accept that fixed penalty, and let them put case to court.
That would mean really serious hassle for me, to go to court is some foreign country, especially if I know I'm going to loose the case anyway, as it was really my fault. On the other hand though, if I accept it, my insurer can always say that I accepted liablity, and according to their rules (quoted above) they refuse to pay for the claim.
Any advice on that?

 

[MrEBear]

Hi CiniO, in the case of your first question this is just badly worded, basically what they are trying to say is that any named driver that holds an extension to driver other cars would not be covered third party on your policy, but if they don't have this extension by law the minimum cover that must be provided is TP so they would be covered as normal.

As for your second question, they aren't really telling you not to admit liability without speaking to them but advising that you should do so first as they can't stop you from admitting it. My advise in those situations would be to use your best judgement, if you know it was your fault admit if not don't, easy as.

Hope this helps. Bear

 

[peteb]

Regarding your wife driving on the continent under Driving other cars section of the policy, I would suggest that you double check with insurers as the intention of most insurers is not to cover this for use out of Ireland and the UK. You would be better off naming her on your policy if you want her to drive outside of the country.

There is no point suspending the policy if you are only going for a two week holiday, as the insurance company will only allow a refund after one month of suspension.

 

[CiniO]

Hi CiniO, in the case of your first question this is just badly worded, basically what they are trying to say is that any named driver that holds an extension to driver other cars would not be covered third party on your policy, but if they don't have this extension by law the minimum cover that must be provided is TP so they would be covered as normal.

Thanks for that.
Still wondering though, if my wife (who holds extension to drive other cars) suspens her policy, will she be still condiered to have that policy.
If my insurer in case of crash, might say that she had policy with driving other cars extension, and it's not their problem the policy was suspended.
Or maybe when she suspends the policy, she is considered not to have that policy at all.
Maybe I'll better write a letter with that question to my insurer.

As for your second question, they aren't really telling you not to admit liability without speaking to them but advising that you should do so first as they can't stop you from admitting it. My advise in those situations would be to use your best judgement, if you know it was your fault admit if not don't, easy as.


Hope this helps. Bear

What you are telling sounds reasonable, but it states clearly in the policy "not to admit liability without insureres written agreement".
Obviously even calling their customer service line might not be enough.
Maybe just though, they reserve it for cases when someone is obviously not at fault and admits liability. Because there's only stated that they might refuse to pay (not that they definitely refuse to pay).
What do you think?


Thanks for your answers Bear.

 

[CiniO]

Regarding your wife driving on the continent under Driving other cars section of the policy, I would suggest that you double check with insurers as the intention of most insurers is not to cover this for use out of Ireland and the UK. You would be better off naming her on your policy if you want her to drive outside of the country.

Why would it be not covered outside UK and Ireland?
Never seen anything like that in a policy.
Third party cover is always valid in all EU countries for the whole period of the policy. I didn't see any exception for driving other cars extension.
Anyways as I wrote earlier - she is named on my policy, but looks like she is not covered with it for third party claims if she has her own policy.

There is no point suspending the policy if you are only going for a two week holiday, as the insurance company will only allow a refund after one month of suspension.

I'll be going more likely for 2 months - so suspending her policy makes sense.

 

[Gooner84]

Why would it be not covered outside UK and Ireland?
Never seen anything like that in a policy.
Third party cover is always valid in all EU countries for the whole period of the policy. I didn't see any exception for driving other cars extension.
Anyways as I wrote earlier - she is named on my policy, but looks like she is not covered with it for third party claims if she has her own policy.


Driving other cars is only covered for the limits set down on the schedule which usually only cover Ireland, N.Ireland, UK and Channel Islands.

Under one of the EU insurance directives each policy must cover the minimum level of cover in all EU states, your insurance policy will only cover you on your own car .
If your wife's policy is suspended then she wont be covered under her policy and will be on yours as once her policy is suspended she is wont be covered for driving other cars. Its really not that hard to comprehend, from the sections you have pasted of the schedule its pretty clear

 

[CiniO]

Driving other cars is only covered for the limits set down on the schedule which usually only cover Ireland, N.Ireland, UK and Channel Islands.

Nothing like this is stated on her policy schedule.

If your wife's policy is suspended then she wont be covered under her policy

Just one thing here. You say: "If your wife's policy is suspended then she wont be covered" which is obviously true. But in policy document it says: "This section of your policy does not cover any person other than you if such
person is insured under another
motor insurance policy". I understand it, that even her policy is suspended, she is still insured (she has insurance policy). Only for the period of suspension, she is not covered. If this is the case, that makes it difficult, as she wouldn't be covered under both policies.

and will be on yours as once her policy is suspended she is wont be covered for driving other cars. Its really not that hard to comprehend, from the sections you have pasted of the schedule its pretty clear

It all depends what does exactly word: "insured" mean. If "insured" refers to a person who holds insurance policy, then it's a problem. If "insured" refers to person who holds insurance policy which gives her cover, then it's OK.

Under one of the EU insurance directives each policy must cover the minimum level of cover in all EU states, your insurance policy will only cover you on your own car .

Are you trying to say, that it would cover only myself, and not any other named drivers?

 

[CiniO]

I'm coming back to that thread now.
I wrote to Allianz to clarify above matters.

I got reply today. I asked them about above, and few other things, I wasn't sure.

Here's the fragment of the reply

In relation to your other queries,
A) if your wife was to get a different policy for her car, without the driving of other cars benefit, would she be covered to drive your car?
The answer to this is yes, as your wife is a named driver of your policy, she is insured fully comprehensive to drive your car.

B) If your wife was to suspend her policy. Would she be insured to driver your car?
Your wife will be insured to drive your car as she is a named driver on your motor policy.

This is perfectly clear for me. I'm not sure though, if it's exactly with their policy document, but that's the official answer, so in case of any trouble, I always have a proof that I got that info directly from them (Allianz). I'm not sure though, how much would it be worth in the court.

But now another thing has arisen.
From what is written on Policy document, I understand that excees only applies to fire, theft and accidental damage to my car.
Just to clarify. Policy consist of 3 sections:

Section 1: Third party insurance
Section 2: Loss or damage to your car by fire and/or theft
Section 3: Accidental damage to your car other than fire and/or theft

In both sections 2 and 3, it clearly says about excees:

From section 2:

You will be responsible for the
amount of the excess stated in the
schedule for each and every claim
under this section whether or not
you are at fault for the loss or
damage.

From section 3:

Excess applicable
You will be responsible for the
amount of the excess stated in the
schedule for each and every claim
under this section whether or not
you are at fault for the loss or
damage. The amount is increased by
€126 where the driver (or person in
charge of your car) other than you,
holds a provisional licence.

But there is not a single word about excees in section 1.
So it's abvious, that I understand that if there is a third party claim against me (from someone who suffered lost or property caused by me) then there is no excees on such a claim (neither him or me pay it).
I have to pay excees only when I claim under section 2 or 3 (fire, theft or damage to my car).
That seem to be perfectly clear for me.

But as I was told once something about it by the customer service over the phone which I wasn't sure if I understood corectly, I decided I ask them in my letter now, together with other questions.

Here's the question I asked:

2. From what I understand, excess only applies to claims against my car, and doesn't apply to claims made by third parties against my policy (for damage which I caused to them). That seems to be clear in Policy document, but I heard different versions at Allianz customer service phone-line. So I wanted to know the definite answer for it.

And here's the answer I got:

2) The policy excess is the amount that you will be responsible for in the event of a claim under the policy. So if someone hits into your car, you will be claiming of their insurance, you don't pay anything. If you are at fault and hit someone, they will claim off your insurance and you pay the excess.

So their answer seems to be completely against, what I understood from the policy.

Now - who is wrong?

 

[peteb]

Considering the amount of times that you seem to have picked through your wording to look for a technical answer they probably got tired of trying to figure what you were asking them.

If a Third Party makes a claim against you there is no excess. What they probably meant was that in the event that you were in an accident and both vehicles were damaged then they will claim off your insurance as will you so there will an excess.

Bottom line if you make a claim there is an excess applying. If someone else does as a result of you damaging their property no excess applies.