Solicitors fee for buying a small bit of land

daraclare

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Hi all, looking for advice on dealing with solicitors fees. We agreed to buy a very small piece of our neighbours garden for €10K. We asked the solicitor how much it would cost to sure we could afford it — she said €850 approx. We also agreed to pay the solicitor fees for our neighbour to encourage him to sell us the piece of land.

After almost a year, we have finally got to the stage of being invoiced by both solicitors, and to be honest, we are shocked. The cost of our solicitor is coming to €2,500, including third party fees, i.e. €30 for registered post and land registry fees of over €1K. The cost for our neighbour's solicitor is almost €2k. This brings the solicitors' fees up to about €4,500 — almost half the cost of the land.

Basically, this means we are not sure if we can afford to go ahead with the purchase of the land, is there anything we can do? Is this to be expected? Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
If you are being invoiced now does that not suggest the transaction is about to close or has closed ?

The land registry fees are ridiculous but like the stamp duty and search fees and the vat etc there is not a thing you can do about it.

It appears the solicitor gave a quote for their service and if so €850 sounds fine on your end, the price of the land is not important.

Scan both invoices for errors.
 
I suspect you made the mistake of asking your solicitor what her fees would be, rather than what the total legal cost would be.
 
I suspect you made the mistake of asking your solicitor what her fees would be, rather than what the total legal cost would be.

Based on the details provided, I would say that it is the solicitor who made the mistake of not making it clear from the outset that there would be additional costs and an estimate of what they might be. She would have known that the job involved costs over and above her own fee. It's her job.
 
Exactly as Seagull points out, your solicitor will also pass on outlays related to the purchase including Land Registry fees. As you're transferring a piece of land from one folio to another, there'll be two sets of Land Registry fees involved.

If they are now invoicing you, it's too late to do anything, the deal is done.
 
....If they are now invoicing you, it's too late to do anything, the deal is done.

Pretty much agree with that, although I'd still try asking both solicitors for a discount on their professional fees (in a friendly manner).
 
Thanks for the replies. We were very clear to our solicitor that we wanted an estimate of what it would cost us in total. She even mentioned that we'd have to pay for an engineer and a valuation, so it's bizarre that she left out the Land Registry fees. She also didn't mentioned that it was ex vat and that they add on €75 for office overhead, which is also ex vat — I find that so annoying. Anyway, we can discuss it further with the solicitor, but it just seems we were grossly misinformed, whether it was deliberate or not.
 
If like you said, you asked for an estimate in total the Land Registry fees should definitely have been included and on the basis that they didn't include them in their quote I would be looking for a discount from their fee - no question. That is bad practice.
 
'' they add on €75 for office overhead...''

New one on me, talk about a junk charge, anybody else ever hear of this ?, I'd be very sore if my solicitor tried that on me...
 
Yes, both solicitors, ours and our neighbours have fees for office overheads, both adding vat to this. I find that bizarre, it's like the invoice is designed to infuriate the client. I've asked solicitors for a receipt for every third party cost, i.e. the land registry stuff. They also say they will give me a small discount, but I haven't received anything in writing yet. The whole thing has added so much stress to what should be relatively simple and painless.
 
Actually, the 'third parties' fees have been outlined below, is anyone more knowledgeable about this than me? I don't think we need searches done, and why would they cost €300? The piece of garden is not going to have debts on it, and I know he owns his house for the past 30 years. How is registered post €30 when a letter costs €8 in an post to send by registered post. Also, should stamp duty not be 1% on a piece of land work €10K?

Outlays due to third parties:
Land Registry fee (registering Deed in Land Registry €500, Registering Deed in Registry of Deeds €50, printing folio X2 €10.00 & €40 Land Reg) (total €600)
Swearing fees: €20
Searches: €300
Same day transfer: €25
Registered post: €30
Stamp Duty 2%: €200​

I'd appreciate any thoughts/advice folks.
 
'' they add on €75 for office overhead...''

New one on me, talk about a junk charge, anybody else ever hear of this ?......

Not specifically, "Vat and Outlays" was the old favorite, or sometimes if you were very lucky, you got "Vat, Outlays, Postage & Courier Charges"...

I think a lesson for everyone is to ask very specific questions about costs and also get them on email or in print, not just verbal.
 
... I've asked solicitors for a receipt for every third party cost, i.e. the land registry stuff. They also say they will give me a small discount, but I haven't received anything in writing yet.....

Don't waste too much time haggling about the various individual costs, unless there is something that you can prove to be wrong.

Things like Registered Post could include larger size packages which cost more due to their weight, possibly include an additional cost to insure contents or who knows, perhaps there was a couple of separate items sent, so it was a few costs combined etc. Ultimately, it's €30 so one of the smaller costs listed.

Searches are pretty standard when property transactions occur, usually conducted by a third party who are unconnected to the solicitors firm. Basically, they ensure that you have clean title dating back X number of years (I'm tempted to say it's 50 - 75 years, but I don't work in the legal profession, so may be very wrong here).

Likewise, Swearing of Documents is often done in front of a Commissioner for Oaths, again often an independent third party and they do typically charge €20 per document, as far as I can recall.

See what discount both firms offer you, hopefully it will be sufficient for you to be able to move on (although I'd guess that it will be 10% at the maximum).

If you are really annoyed about this, you might try contacting the law society and asking if they can independently review the invoices received, or point you towards someone else who can. I'm not sure how much help they will be, but have a faint recollection of hearing about someone else having tried to go this route in times past.
 
Actually, the 'third parties' fees have been outlined below, is anyone more knowledgeable about this than me? I don't think we need searches done, and why would they cost €300? The piece of garden is not going to have debts on it, and I know he owns his house for the past 30 years. How is registered post €30 when a letter costs €8 in an post to send by registered post. Also, should stamp duty not be 1% on a piece of land work €10K?

Outlays due to third parties:
Land Registry fee (registering Deed in Land Registry €500, Registering Deed in Registry of Deeds €50, printing folio X2 €10.00 & €40 Land Reg) (total €600)
Swearing fees: €20
Searches: €300
Same day transfer: €25
Registered post: €30
Stamp Duty 2%: €200​

I'd appreciate any thoughts/advice folks.

You're being ridiculous. The fee quoted was 850. VAT is 21%. It's around 1k. That's a reasonable fee for the conveyancing costs. All the other costs are outside the solicitors control. It matters not one whit that the land costs only 10k. Which is what you are focused on.

And you absolutely have to have searches done. The solicitor would be negligent not to do so. I see zero there to query.

As for the vending solicitor charging 2K. You should have asked a quotation for that. It's double your solicitor and the vending solicitor has less work to do.

Why are you saying 600 for the registry if deeds when you said it was over 1k earlier?

What is the solicitors fee on your invoice?

If you're broke ask the solicitors if they will agree a monthly direct debit.
 
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Not specifically, "Vat and Outlays" was the old favorite, or sometimes if you were very lucky, you got "Vat, Outlays, Postage & Courier Charges"...

I think a lesson for everyone is to ask very specific questions about costs and also get them on email or in print, not just verbal.
Solicitors are obliged to send out a specific letter with their fees. S68 letter I think it is called. It would be much better if all solicitors sent out a detailed quotation for costs including VAT.
 
Thanks for the replies. We were very clear to our solicitor that we wanted an estimate of what it would cost us in total. She even mentioned that we'd have to pay for an engineer and a valuation, so it's bizarre that she left out the Land Registry fees. She also didn't mentioned that it was ex vat and that they add on €75 for office overhead, which is also ex vat — I find that so annoying. Anyway, we can discuss it further with the solicitor, but it just seems we were grossly misinformed, whether it was deliberate or not.

I think that this is the bigger issue. Not the actual cost of the outlays. You asked your solicitor for an estimate of what it would cost in total. She didn't give it to you.
 
I think that this is the bigger issue. Not the actual cost of the outlays. You asked your solicitor for an estimate of what it would cost in total. She didn't give it to you.

The opening post here suggests otherwise.

she said €850 approx. We also agreed to pay the solicitor fees for our neighbour to encourage him to sell us the piece of land.

And no professional can give a reliable estimate of third party costs, least of all the costs of another professional. The claim that €850 was estimated to cover everything is ludicrous.

And if they're quibbling over €30 for registered post... :rolleyes:
 
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The opening post here suggests otherwise. And no professional can give a reliable estimate of third party costs. least of all the costs of another professional. The claim that €850 was estimated to cover everything is ludicrous.

And if they're quibbling over €30 for registered post... :rolleyes:

Point taken, but it would strike me that, at the start of the process, the solicitor should have sent out a written estimate - even an e-mail - quoting her own fee, VAT, a conditional estimate of outlays and perhaps a line saying that she could not estimate the other solicitor's costs and that the client should request an estimate from the other solicitor.
 
Point taken, but it would strike me that, at the start of the process, the solicitor should have sent out a written estimate - even an e-mail - quoting her own fee, VAT, a conditional estimate of outlays and perhaps a line saying that she could not estimate the other solicitor's costs and that the client should request an estimate from the other solicitor.

Possibly that was done, we don't know. In my experience, most if not all solicitors nowadays use narratives to that effect in their communications with clients on putative property transactions. But the story we've been given above frankly lacks credibility.
 
We asked the solicitor how much it would cost to sure we could afford it — she said €850 approx. We also agreed to pay the solicitor fees for our neighbour to encourage him to sell us the piece of land.

We were very clear to our solicitor that we wanted an estimate of what it would cost us in total.

My interpretation of the above is that the poster believed that the all-in cost for own solicitor would be €850 and assumed that a similar cost would apply to the other side. Total cost €1,700 or thereabouts. Naive not enquiring about the cost from the other side, but so be it. If my interpretation is correct, then I believe the solicitor should have given a more detailed estimate and breakdown at the start - something a bit like what I posted above.

But perhaps I'm the one being naive here. Perhaps the poster did get more information at the outset and either ignored it or chose to ignore it. In which case this whole thread is a waste of our time.
 
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